How does this relate to the debate?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
How does this relate to the debate?
2771
Wed, 08-20-2003 - 7:56pm
Hey I rhymed! lol

Something occurred to me earlier and I wanted to see how others thought it might relate to the whole "which is harder SAH/WOH" portion of the debate that crops up so often.

I think that, when you look at either group *as a whole*, the WOHs might have it harder. And this is why ...

There are virtually no SAHMs who SAH because they "have to". There are virtually no SAHMs who are forced to SAH. A woman that SAH wants to SAH.(I'm sure there's a few exceptions out there; controlling dhs who MAKE their wives SAH, disabled children, etc) A woman that SAH doesn't hate her "job", or else she'd go get a WOH job. A woman that SAH is generally getting what she wants.

There are LOTS AND LOTS of WOHMs who WOH because they "have to". A single mom, or one whose dh doesn't make enough to support the family, or one with a disabled dh, whatever the case may be ... she may long, with all her heart, to SAH, but *can't*. Many WOHMs hate their jobs, but can't quit.

Anyhoo ... just wanted to stir up something new

Hollie

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Avatar for taylormomma
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-23-2003
Mon, 08-25-2003 - 9:18pm
I would consider that question insulting. It clearly gives the message that you think if I only thought about it, I would have chosen differently.
Avatar for taylormomma
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-23-2003
Mon, 08-25-2003 - 9:20pm
What's so hot about being a lawyer?
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 08-25-2003 - 9:22pm
Who says they have to write in complete sentences to journal? Who says they have to write in cursive? You? Your questions suggest you know very little about why children journal in school or why it's a requirement.

Those who DO know (sources ranging from teachers in John's school who had an investment in the idea, to my retired teacher grandmother before she died, to my sister (a teacher w/ over 25 years of experience, to several women at church who are teachers in grades ranging from pre-school through middle school, none of whom had any investment in "selling" me the idea) have assured me that there is a great deal of value in making the function of articulating thoughts on paper as normal as brushing one's teeth in the morning to children from a young age. the point of the activity is NOT grammar, complete/complex sentences or the practice of cursive. The point is demystifying the idea of written communication at a very early age, so that as children gain written language skills, they will not be stymied by the blank page.

John's earliest journals are not only hysterically funny (he spent a good deal of the 1st grade writing really gory shark stories with himself as the hero (and occasionally the shark)), but they are adorable as he "told" most of the story with pictures, and some of his written "guesses" for words (translated by either the teacher or the classroom aid that translated big words for the kids as a matter of course to provide a written record of what they were actually trying to say) were both funny and an interesting glimpse into how he viewed the written word over time.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
Mon, 08-25-2003 - 9:23pm
It isn't about settling. It is about putting value on different stuff. Can you fathom that you may have children that aren't as ambitious as you? What do you do if YOU want them to be "the best" and they are perfectly content to coast along, pursuing interests that don't have traditional rewards of status and respect and money? Or if you instill in them the desire to be "the best" and they dutifully pursue it only to find out that they are miserable once they achieve it? Or heaven forbid, they simply don't have what it takes to achieve any of the lofty hopes you've planted?

I think it is prudent to hope for more general stuff in regards to my children and their futures. I hope for them to grow up compassionate and giving. I hope for them to achieve a high level of self-actualization, to live a well-examined life. To use their talents wisely. To feel a sense of purpose. To pursue their passions, to have interests that they feel passionate about. To develop relationships that are meaningful and to never be afraid to love. To embrace hard work. To take risks. And so forth. I am prepared to be proud of most everything my children do.



It is very dangerous to project your career desires and dreams onto your children. Either they try to jump through hoops to please YOU (and may end up not satisfying themselves) or they give up attempting to please you altogether and reject your set of ideal career paths completely. (My best friend from college's former BIL is a lowly music teacher which doesn't make his famous cardiologist of a dad very happy. Another friend has a BIL who is 26 and delivers pizza because the effort required to get a job that would get him out of his parents' basement isn't worth it. He was raised to be "the best" but was never given the tools for dealing with adversity and floundered when he had to compete in the real world. )

There is this great story about a young man who was encouraged to go to medical school by his parents. They groomed him for it, pushed and prodded. He did the premed thing at a prestigious university, went to med school and upon graduating, turned to his parents and handed them his diploma. "Here you go, your son is a doctor. Now leave me alone." He hopped on a plane to join the Peace Corps.

Be very careful. I felt somewhat the same way you did a few years ago. Then I hit a point where I saw an awful lot of very successful professionals who were miserable (or just lacking passion) with all the trappings of "success." I'm not wishing that on my children.

Avatar for laurenmom2boys
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Mon, 08-25-2003 - 9:26pm
Please explain what the "norm" is. Not your opinion of what the "norm" is, but facts.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2003
Mon, 08-25-2003 - 9:26pm
You make a very interesting and important point about what is acceptable to admit, a sahm admitting she wants to woh vs. a wohm admitting she wishes she could sah. As an in-between work status mom, I have no problem admitting my pt woh is purely for my fulfillment and self-esteem, but I might hesitate to admit this if it were fulltime.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 08-25-2003 - 9:27pm
Dunno. I don't have an awful work life....or if I do, I don't piss and moan about it. Those few times I've had a job I hated, I focussed on my home life and looked for work elsewhere.

I see nothing noble about making my child feel guilty for the fact that I worked to support him.

As I have said numerous times, he was no burden to me. Not financially, nor any other way.

Avatar for taylormomma
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-23-2003
Mon, 08-25-2003 - 9:28pm
What do you know about managing a shoe store?
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
Mon, 08-25-2003 - 9:43pm
You know, this post reminds me of a comment Sally Jesse Raphael once made. She said that at a cocktail party, one should never resort to asking another partigoer one has just met what he or she does for a living. Because that is ultimately asking, "Where exactly do you fit in socially/economically?" If you cannot sustain an intelligent, lively conversation without resorting to what one does for a living (or in the case of us SAHPs, what we don't do for a living) you are one uninspired and unoriginal thinker who probably shouldn't be invited to parties.

I love getting to know people without knowing their work situations or career choice. Then I am always pleasantly surprised to find out what they do after I have made up my mind if I like someone or not. (Well, to be honest I usually like everyone I meet.) My favorite was getting to know the father of one of my dd's preschool playmates. I knew him for three years before I ventured to ask what he did for a living. I thought he was a professional dogsled racer or a river guide but it turns out he is a stockbroker. (Who wants to quit to design jewelry...)

Avatar for taylormomma
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-23-2003
Mon, 08-25-2003 - 9:45pm
Nope, if I won the lottery, I wouldn't quit tomorrow, because I really like my job. I don't think a "job" is something you hate but do to pay the bills.

I define career pretty much the way Webster's does - as a profession you train for which is a calling, and as pursuing progressive achievement and rank.

I'm not into office politics. I've been management, and I found it tiresome. I don't enjoy administration. I told my boss at my last review that my career goal was to avoid being in management at all costs. (He sympathized with me, btw - and has since transferred to a position where he has far fewer people reporting to him) It's actually been kind of tricky, because I'm pretty promotable material.

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