How prevelant is this attitude?

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-12-2002
How prevelant is this attitude?
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Wed, 04-02-2003 - 11:29am
A post below peeked my interest, as I have run into this a few times IRL, and alot online. How prevelant is the thinking that SAHP's are just home because they expect someone else to support them. Or because they are too lazy to get a job or keep a job. I didn't really keep up on the story of that governor who had twins while in office, but if I remember, her husband was a SAHP and it was constantly rumored that he wasn't a SAHD, he just couldn't keep a job. That may be true, I don't know, but I found it interesting that it even came up.

In the past, I have run into alot of people (alot in my own disfunctional family) who view the SAHP (me at the time) as someone who either cannot or won't hold down a job. They (in a general sense) tend to overlook the SAHP as someone who is not worthwhile of their time and attention. I know that there are judgements made on both sides of this, and I think we hear alot of the SAHP's judgements here because it tends to ruffle feathers. But I'm wondering how many other people have run into the WOHP's judgements or even to hear from WOHPs here who have the same judgements because I really don't understand this way of thinking.

Okmrsmommy-36, CPmom to DD-16 and DS-14

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 04-04-2003 - 2:43pm
Pretty much what I make of any given experience. A trip to the library, a walk, reaching out to another human being can all expand my world. If I allow something to cause me to think, react or change a path I might be on, it counts. I have been to parts of Europe and while it was a great experience, it didn't necessarily impact my life and teach me "new" things the way building a relationship with a neighbor did.

My college experiences have added to my life, but not in a way that was any more meanigful than working at a grocery store in the inner city.

I hate to sound so pollyanna, but I guess this topic just brings it out in me.

SUS

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 04-04-2003 - 2:51pm
I have to agree with you here!

I think that *broadening horizons* is just plainly put, gaining new perspective on life. I too had a wonderful experience in Europe - but I think I grew more as a person working two jobs while attending classes for a year to pay for it! Books, movies, music, an unsober evening at the local pub for the first time.. all of them can change your world if you are open enough to possibility.

Avatar for cyndiluwho
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Fri, 04-04-2003 - 2:51pm
Opting out of the work force which is a MAJOR contributing factor in the wage gap. Would a man be opting out, yes BUT since opting out is not something men do as a matter of routine, a man choosing to opt out isn't held against the rest of the men who stay in the work force. The only way women can change the bias against them because it's ASSUMED they will opt out or that the risk of them opting out is great (you have to remember that companies put a lot into training personnel. Who would you rather train, someone who is more or less likely to quit when they have kids?? Part of getting employees to stay is enticing them with pay.) is if it is no longer considered normal for them and only them to opt out. Women need to stay in the work force to change the perception that they just quit when they have babies. It would help if men would start taking leaves as neither sex would be looked down upon if both were equally as likely to quit, take a leave or stay in the work force as the other. Part of achieving equal wages is for the liklihood of quitting to be equal between men and women. Since men aren't quitting at anywhere near the numbers women are, women need to stay in the work force in order to change things.
Avatar for cyndiluwho
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Fri, 04-04-2003 - 2:57pm
Opting out is negative for women because it is seen as proof that they won't stay in the work force. Therefore, they're not worth training well or paying well. The effects of it being normal for women, but not men, to opt out is seen in our paychecks. Equality will be achieved when the odds are equally great that men and women will stay in the work force when they have kids. When women leave the work force in no greater numbers than men when they have kids, then we have half a chance at getting paid a fair wage for the work we do. It's negative because it impacts companies negatively and, for the most part, it's something only women do. Personally, I would love to see more men taking paternity leaves. Would it be held against them? Initially, yes but once the liklihood that either mom or dad would take a leave were equal, companies would have no reason to descriminate in pay.
Avatar for cyndiluwho
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Fri, 04-04-2003 - 3:05pm
Unfortunately, quitting when you have kids is looked down upon for women because it's seen as something that only women do. The impact of high percentages of women opting out is seen in the paychecks of every woman out there. It's seen in that 74 cents on the dollar that we make for doing the same work as men. Companies won't pay us because they figure we're just going to leave so why make a heavy investment. If a man opts out, it's a personal choice because such a small percentage of men do it. For women, it's reinfocement of old stereotypes. Every woman who quits to SAH makes it that much harder for the next woman who comes in behind her because this is seen as something that only women do.

The negative connotation comes from the fact that it's a female thing to do. If it were, instead, a parent thing to do with fathers being just as likely as mothers to opt out, then companies would have no reason to descriminate. There'd be no reason to deny a woman training in favor of training a man because she'd be just as likely to stay as he would. The problem is opting out being a woman only game hurts all working women because it's something that only women do. It's the idea that it's normal for women to do this that is bad. We're seen as not being as reliable or valuable as men because of it.

Avatar for 1969jets
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 04-04-2003 - 3:09pm
What is "non horizon broadening" about hanging out with rich people? Is it only "horizon broadening" to hang out with people are poor (or foreigh)? I went to a University where there were many rich kids and let me tell you it was certainly "horizon broadening" for me. I had never encountered people with lots of money until I went to college. I had grown up in an all white, blue collar town in NY. Nobody was poor, but there was no big money there either. I had never been invited to a country club until I went to college and it was exciting for me. I never had access to really good Broadway tickets, or concert tickets until I met some people in school who did have access to that stuff on a regular basis. Sure I had been to a matinee for a school field trip, but never had orchestra seats for a Sat night performance. I had seen the NY Philharmonic practice (another school field trip) but had never attended a live performace until I met some friends in college who had access to things like that.

So explain to my why it would be considered horizon broadening to be exposed to people from lower social classes, but not higher ones?

Jenna

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 04-04-2003 - 3:09pm
It depends on your field. I would never accept one penny less than a man for my job. But I have alternatives, and I'm willing to do some travel, OT, etc. and I've made it very clear that I want a FT career.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 04-04-2003 - 3:13pm
If you are away from your normal environment, whatever that is, and are exposed to richer or poorer people than what you're used to, it would be broadening.

But to hang out in your "normal" environment, whatever that would be, isn't.

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Avatar for 1969jets
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 04-04-2003 - 4:11pm
Wouldn't that depend on what your daily life entailed?

Jenna

Avatar for cyndiluwho
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Fri, 04-04-2003 - 4:24pm
Question, do you think the same applies to dads? What if they're not high energy? What aspect of their lives should give if they aren't high energy enough to both work and parent well? What happens if both mom and dad are low energy and can't manage to work and parent well?? How do you decide who SAH?

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