If you hadn't had kids...

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-23-2004
If you hadn't had kids...
1649
Thu, 05-20-2004 - 10:34pm
And your dh made enough $$ to support both of you comfortably, do you think you would be working?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-27-1998
Wed, 06-02-2004 - 3:30pm

Would this be what you call swooping in?

PumpkinAngel

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
Wed, 06-02-2004 - 3:31pm
"There is our huge philosophical difference. Parenting, to me, is to prepare my children to survive in the world emotionally, physically and financially."

How is this a huge philosophical difference? How is this any different than *optimal bonding and attachment*? You can't survive in the world "emotionally, physically and financially", without first learning about bonding and attachment.


"I have done a good job with my children when they can make good solid decisions on their own, when they question my values and, when they fall, they are able to get up with little assistance by me."

Absolutely, and they learn to "make good solid decisions on their own, when they question your values and, when they fall, they are able to get up with little assistance by you," by first learning about bonding and attachment right?

"The big picture, to me, is not what my children are doing when they are five or seven or nine. It is the decisions they make when they are seventeen, twenty-five, thirty and seventy. I give them the tools I think they need-a moral background, theological education, discipline when necessary and lots of love. I explain things to them and try to guide them right."

I couldn't agree more and to think they learn all of this by first learning about bonding and attachment right?

"To me, those things are so insignificant compared to the big picture-emotional strength of the family, how marriage is modeled, the financial picture of the family and the life events a person has to live through in the course of their lives."

And to me NONE of these things is insignificant. *ALL* of these things are important. Each of the small things are *equally* important as they make up/comprise the BIG PICTURE. How can you say that *some* things are important, but *others* are not?

"It would be easier to believe that your child will always love you and never question you and never hurt if you breastfeed and attachement parent."

No, actually it wouldn't be easy to believe this, as it would be entirely unrealistic.

"I can't believe that because, I know, you can do everything right and, in the blink of the eye, your life can change."

Neither can I, and for the same reason.

"A death, an addiction, a disease. Then the rest is meaningless and your challenge is to parent in the face of an emotional crisis."

No, the rest isn't meaningless. Bad things happen everyday. There's no way to avoid it, even *if* you do everything right. Life isn't just about the good times. Bad times are necessary, inevitable, and even healthy. Good times don't become irrelevent or meaningless due to bad times. In fact, IMO good times become all the more blessed when measured by or compared to bad times. Good times AND bad times come and go. but life always continues to go on.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-27-1998
Wed, 06-02-2004 - 3:35pm

Question....if your dd received the bonding and attachment through your b-feeding and you being a sahMOM, how exactly did she bond and form an attachment with HER father?


PumpkinAngel

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
Wed, 06-02-2004 - 3:37pm
"Why would dad be considered a substitute if he gave b-milk from a bottle?"

He wouldn't be, I'm talking aobut dcp/substitute caregivers.

"B-feeding is not the end all in bonding, one does not need to have a part of the body in your mouth to bond or form an attachment...otherwise you are saying that men have no bonding and no attachment to their children."

Of course, it isn't the end all be all in bonding, but it's certainly one of the *BIGGIES* now isn't it?



iVillage Member
Registered: 12-10-2003
Wed, 06-02-2004 - 3:42pm
Not to speak for jorvia, but it's not her "ideals" that get to people. But that she uses her ideals as gospel for what's best for all children. Until she can prove that bm from the breast "is waaaaay better" than ebm in CONCRETE terms of a childs attachment, development and health then it is nothing than "because I think so". Line me up a bunch of children and show me significant diffencence in them based on ebm and bm. You can't. because there isn't. She is wrong. Show me some significant research and we will talk.

Same with co sleeping. We co sleep with our son. My guess is that both our children are just as attached to each of us. If you put both our kids side by side you are really going to say that I am more attached, that you missed out on something? No. So many parenting choices are based on the lifestyle of the parent. You didn't co sleep. I co slept. See me in twenty years and we will compare kids. jeez, let's compae now and see if there is a difference.

Momofhk has not done an excellent job of debating. She has done nothing but posed her opinions as facts. With nothing to back it up other than I told you so. Her idea that doing anything other than what she espouses will PROMOTE detachment is laughable at best. It flys in the face of all the children who have healthy attachments with their parents who did opposite of what she did.

I *guarantee* you that you will see no difference between my ebm child and her exclusively bm fed child. And *that's* the point.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Wed, 06-02-2004 - 3:49pm
Just an aside:

Hugs,

Bridget & Ethan (5)

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-27-1998
Wed, 06-02-2004 - 3:52pm

No I wouldn't consider it

PumpkinAngel

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-10-2003
Wed, 06-02-2004 - 3:53pm
And there ARE things that are going to matter "waaaaaay more" than feeding your child bm vs ebm. Like making the pasta that your ds1 likes versus buying it. :)

Like I said there are a million ways to raise great healthy kids. Thank goodness I realized that before I got tangled in to the "there's only one way to be a good mother" insanity. I have actually witnessed conversations between mothers who discussed the appropriate popsicle to feed their child. Popsicles. It was a real, lamenting, serious conversation. Sometime people don't see the forest for the trees. KWIM?

Avatar for outside_the_box_mom
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 06-02-2004 - 4:00pm
Here is my "amazing complexity" regarding the choices I have made. I quit my job and worked at home because I wanted to be home and with my child. But I still had to use PT "other care" because we couldn't, at the time, make it on DH's salary alone. So I juggled WAH with SAH. It was incredibly difficult. I don't want those days back at all -- the working until the wee hours of the morning but still getting up at 5:00 with DS, juggling client meetings and DS' nap schedule, etc etc.

In addition to the bottom line, I was also struggling with my own personal issues. I wanted to be home, but I did not want to be a "housewife." I wanted to be home, but I still needed to make money for my own sake. I wanted to be home, but I craved outside stimulation. I am so very glad I SAH, but it was not the easiest period of my life.

As to the medicated birth of my DS, it was medicated because I had toxima. What? Should I have gone into seizure so I could have had a natural birth -- even though I could have died? My labor was induced because it was no longer safe for me to carry DS. I was given an epidural because he got "stuck" and the doctor thought being relaxed would loosen up my muscles and he would come out. He didn't. I was given a C-section because the doctor said it was no longer safe for *me* to be in labor. I wanted a "natural" childbirth with a passion, but it didn't happen. My child has not suffered from being born "unnaturally." All that matters is that he was born ALIVE and HEALTHY to a mother who was ALIVE to take care of him.

Screw your "incredibly lazy" and "selfish" judgments. I am the best mother I know. All my decisions have been based on what is best for me, my child and my family.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Wed, 06-02-2004 - 4:01pm

<>


Either she is the happiest person on the face of the planet (with all of her LOLing) or feels she must couch her opinions in an "LOL" because she's not personally convinced of them enough to be serious about them.

Hugs,

Bridget & Ethan (5)

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