If you hadn't had kids...
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If you hadn't had kids...
| Thu, 05-20-2004 - 10:34pm |
And your dh made enough $$ to support both of you comfortably, do you think you would be working?
| Thu, 05-20-2004 - 10:34pm |
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Yesterday at lunch, my DS screamed "Maxi Pad" in reference to my parents' dog Max. I've got to stop calling him that...
C
I'm really not looking for anything specific here, I simply enjoy voicing my opinions. Basically, more than anything else, I come here to debate the status quo. I enjoy speaking up for the minority, rather than defending the majority. I, unlike most people on the board, do NOT think that all choices are somehow *equal*, and thus irrelevent to the big picture. I think that some choices absolutely DO make a difference. And viola, parenting ideals are born.
While you may believe that parenting *choices/ideals* don't matter, I happen to believe that they *do*. In other words, while you may believe that it doesn't matter whether you bf or use formula, whether you SAH or WOH, whether you use full-time dc/substitute care (especially when children are very young) or not, etc. I *DO*. And guess what, I can assure you that I am well within my rights to stand up for what I believe in.
BTW, how many people do you know who actively speak out in favor of the use of full-time dc/substitute care for very young children? How many people do you know who are extremely idealistic about the use of formula? What about the flip side? How often do you hear someone passionately proclaiming the benefits of extended bfing, of SAH, of parental care vs. substitute care?
In other words, do you really want to live in a society where parenting *ideals* are basically meaningless and irrelevent? I certainly don't. I loath this type of *autopilot* mentality. I mean honestly, are we really here to simply *defend the hive* and blindly insist that *anything goes*? Come now, are *all* choices really *equal*? Is formula truely *equal* to bfing? Absolutely not! So why do people *WANT* the choices to be *equal* when clearly they are not? WHY? It doesn't make any sense.
And as for your "serious sacrifice* argument, I think it's a bunch of balony. Do you really think it's perfectly ok to make poor and even innappropriate parenting choices as long as there's "serious sacrifice" involved? Tell me, how much sacrifice is involved in feeding your infant with formula, in WOH, in using full-time dc/substitute care for very young children? As far as I can see, these choices have nothing to do with *sacrifice* OR *ideals*. So what ARE they based on: Convenience, acceptance by the majority, Corporate America, the American Dream, etc???
As far as I'm concerned, the *effort/sacrifice* you speak of, is much like spinning one's wheels and is basically meaningless without *parenting ideals*. How exactly does *effort/sacrifice*, "show how much parents care about their kids" again? Don't you have to have both effort AND ideals? In other words, what good is *effort* alone? What good is *effort* without goal or purpose? Sorry, but putting forth extreme effort isn't going to get you anywhere if you have no direction.
In fact, I would even go so far as to say that it is the *ideals*, that "show how much parents care about their kids." For some reason, you seem to think that parenting is all about work, struggling, and sacrifice, in other words, what one DOES. I, OTOH, tend to think that parenting is all about beliefs, goals, and ideals, in other words, who one IS. I simply cannot *put my all* into something I don't feel utterly passionate about. I guess I feel just the opposite of you. Idealism must come first for me. I just don't see the point of putting a great deal of time and effort into something I don't really believe in/care about. Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
Other positions you have claimed to be far superior fare no better. Yes, bm is better than formula, but there is no basis, scientific or otherwise, for claiming that formula fed babies are demonstrably worse off in the long run. That epidural of yours? How is your baby any the worse for it? A thousand studies can't find any major differences between children in daycare and children with a SAHM. Despite these indisputable facts, you cluck your tongue at parents who make choices your don't deign to deem superior.
If you just took unsupportable positions that would be bad enough, but your posts are obnoxious and judgmental. If you'd pay attention to what people other than yourself were saying, you'd understand the amazing complexity of the ways that people parent and the reasons why some parents work. If you paid attention and listened to someone else, you wouldn't make condescending statements like claiming that people work for "Convenience, acceptance by the majority, Corporate America, the American Dream, etc???"
Speaking for myself, I welcome a worthy adversary. You aren't it.
Idealism is great, my point is that instead of being idealistic about small things that may or may not make much difference, the focus should be on the BIG THINGS.
Mondo
Hugs,
Bridget & Ethan (5)
But I'm not trying to be persuasive. I'm simply voicing my thoughts and opinions. Clearly, I believe that some choices are objectively/ideally better than others, where as you do not. How much time and effort do you think I should put into trying to convince or persuade you otherwise?
"You tried to ignore, then laugh at, then shrug off questions."
No, actually I don't. I simply don't see the point in explaining my position over and over again to no avail. You know exactly what I think and how I feel, you simply don't want to accept my position.
"Yes, bm is better than formula, but there is no basis, scientific or otherwise, for claiming that formula fed babies are demonstrably worse off in the long run. That epidural of yours? How is your baby any the worse for it? A thousand studies can't find any major differences between children in daycare and children with a SAHM. Despite these indisputable facts, you cluck your tongue at parents who make choices your don't deign to deem superior."
Then why should anyone have parenting ideals at all? Why should anyone have an opinion on anything if "kids turn out the same" anyway? What's the point? Again, I happen to think that ideally speaking, some choices are objectively better than others. Yes, I tend to think that *natural* choices are more appropriate than *artificial* ones. Is this type of thinking simply off base? Or are *artificial* choices somehow more appropriate in the long run?
Honestly, I just don't get it? Do you really see no inherent difference between ffing and bfing, between WOH and SAH, between parental and substitute care, between medicated births and undeicated births? Do you not recognize that some of these choices are more *natural* than others (you know the way nature intended them to be)? Do you not recognize that some of these choices are are objectively/ideally better than others? How can you not comprehend this?
Why do you instead choose to play the *no major differences between children* card? If what you say is true, that bfing, SAH, parental care, undemicated births etc. makes *absolutely no difference at all*, then why do people *choose* to make these choices? I mean, why make a choice at all, if it isn't going to make a bit of difference in the long run? Why choose to put in the extra effort if there is no underlying reason for it? Do you see how ludicrous that sounds?
Basically, the dilemna here is that *I* think there is in fact a *difference* between parenting choices and ideals, where as *you* think there is *no difference*. So which is it? Are *all* parenting choices/ideals the *same* or aren't they? Does bfing, SAH, parental care, having an unmdeicated birth, etc *make a difference* or not? And if all of this * makes zero difference anyway* why don't we all choose to make the same artificial choices? After all, artificial choices are more convenient, easier, less demanding, etc. and there's absolutely no proof that children "are demonstrably worse off in the long run" right?
"If you just took unsupportable positions that would be bad enough, but your posts are obnoxious and judgmental."
Unsupportable positions??? You mean like insisting that there are in fact *differences* between parenting choices and ideals, that not *all* choices and ideals are *equal*? You're right, that's just waaaaaay out there isn't it? But not nearly as *out there* as trying to insist that "kids turn out the same" anyway, and that there are *no major differences between children* no matter what you do, regardless of the choices you make.
"If you'd pay attention to what people other than yourself were saying, you'd understand the amazing complexity of the ways that people parent and the reasons why some parents work."
The amazing complexity huh??? Well why don't you fill me in then. What exactly is so *amazingly complex* about choosing to ff, WOH, use substitute care, have a medicated birth, etc? You want to know what is so amazingly complex here: that we as a society are the *laziest* and *most selfish* people on the face of the planet, and that most people truely believe that *anything goes* because *nothing really matters anyway*.
If you're just voicing opinions, without trying to persuade, you've missed the very nature of a debate board.
I believe choices DO matter.
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Laura
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While this might be true for parents that bring their child to the dcp's house or center, it was definitely NOT true for us.
Hugs,
Bridget & Ethan (5)
Laura
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