Rock and a Hard Place

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-12-2003
Rock and a Hard Place
1524
Thu, 11-20-2003 - 10:45am

There's something on this board that has been bothering me, and I hope I can articulate it.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 11-27-2003 - 9:36am
Balls. If your child is doing things or knows information she didn't know before, you know it's working. If she can do the work expected of her, it's working. You don't have to compare her against others to know that; you just ahve to see her work and compare it to her texts.

Anything else is just pretension for the sake of seeming to care.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-02-2003
Thu, 11-27-2003 - 10:35am
My oldest child was moved from G1 to G3. It was obvious that she was ahead of her peers and that she was becoming bored. The teacher called us in for a conference before the end of September. My ds may (we have not yet decided on this)attend the G1 class for reading after xmas. He is clearly advanced in reading and while not appearing to be bored, the teacher feels the extra challenge would be good for him. We haven't yet decided because he is in French Immersion so the language is totally new to him - which may explain why he isn't bored. Comparing him to the other children in his class would be silly and would not provide any information whatsoever. OTOH, if we put him in the G1 class, I will want to know how he compares - I still don't think charting will be necessary.
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-12-2003
Thu, 11-27-2003 - 11:20am
Just curious.. but would it have bothered you at all if she had said "Half the children haven't been read to... and it's not the kids with SAHPs, let me tell you!"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 11-27-2003 - 11:22am
Effort is such a modifiable thing. And knowing what others can achieve and have achieved is such a motivational thing, unless its a totally discouraging thing. My kids figure out where they fit in their classes simply through 7 and 9 yr old gossip and observation. Such a reliable source of information. Since the real underlying data is a heavily guarded secret, its really difficult for me to speak to their analysis with any kind of insight whatsoever. Any parent who says "oh my kid knows where he fits in his class" but has no desire whatsoever to ever actually see information that would define where the child actually does fit, is operating in a blinder mode I can never think of as wise.

How are you absolutely positive that your child knows where he fits in the class if he isn't allowed to discuss it? Or do you mean, as long as he isn't smartest, he is allowed to disccuss it. But should he be smartest, then he should of course pretend that he hadn't noticed? Playing small and pretending gifts don't exist, does noone any good. A child who is smartest should be allowed to be aware of it without being made to feel guilty, just the same as the child who is average is generally allowed to admit that. If your child can't 'admit' to his mother that he is smartest, how sad is that? I'll say it again. Its you who has the problem with competition. I can't tell if you are worried about someone else getting to have the "smartest" child and just wish said child wouldn't be allowed to let his parents know, or whether you want to go on belieiving you have the smartest without ever having to face concrete facts that might prove that as untrue. Either way. You have a competition issue wrt your children.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 11-27-2003 - 11:39am
My children will know information tomorrow that they didn't know today. I guarantee it. Has nothing to do with school or parenting. They are at a stage in life where they WILL learn. They WILL learn even if they don't have single parent or teacher involved in their lives.

I however an interested in seeing that they learn certain kinds of things, and that they work to their potential. I am interested in seeing that they learn to set goals, put in required effort. I want them to learn to set goals in terms of some meaningful end result, and I want them to learn to judge for themselves how much effort will be required for themselves to meet such goal, and to learn to determine for themselves if the goal is worth it in terms of effort required. They absolutely cannot not take a step towards learning to analyze, predict, judge effort and requirement or to set meaningful goals, without looking around to see what everyone else is doing, how much effort it takes others, what goals they achieve. People who can't do a decent job of knowing what they want and analyzing what it will take, and then deciding if the end is worth the effort...just drive me nuts. People who insist their best should have been enough, or the effort they put in was enough and the cruel world didn't give them the love they deserve, are often the ones who refuse to acknowlege the comparative nature of life. People who are up against external road blocks that others don't face, don't gain the same rewards as a result, and are unaware of that are equally annoying. Its not just a concept that applies in terms of concrete academic results. It applies all over the place in life and in trying to achieve anything at all. An ability to be aware of the achievements and effort put forth by others, and to apply that to ones own self and goals, is critical. I refuse to teach my kids that this aspect of life doesn't matter.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-02-2003
Thu, 11-27-2003 - 11:43am
Where you draw your conclusions from, I really don't know. I have not said that my son is not *allowed* to say he is the smartest. I know he knows that many of the other children cannot read, while he can. He is aware that he may go to the G1 class for reading. I have not ever told him that he is the *smartest*. He is well aware that the other children WILL learn to read too. It was not from something that he DID. I praise effort as opposed to accomplishment. Some things come easy to some kids and not so easy to other kids - giving him a swollen head about something that he did not have to work for seems rather foolish to me. Why do I need to know where he fits in relation to the rest of the class? Why does not feeling a need to know mean that I am operating with blinders on? I could give a hoot about where he *fits*. If he is happy and he is being challenged, and he is learning - THAT is what I care about.

I have no problems with academic competition between equally capable competitors. THAT makes some sense and is a challenge. To *allow* (which is totally ridiculous anyway) my son to feel superior to his age mates would not benefit him at all. As I said, I send him to school for the socialization at least as much, if not more, than the academics. He is certainly *allowed* to discuss anything he would like to discuss. Where he fits in his class, at the age of 5, is clearly not an issue for him. He enjoys school and considers all the kids his friends. Being the smartest is not a big deal. In fact, he would prefer to be the fastest - in terms of running, but that aint gonna happen. They compete in K, don't get me wrong, but not for top grades.

Just so you know, I was able to raise one accelerated learner who learned to challenge herself. Again, comparing her to her age mates in early elementary would have been a waste of time and would only serve to give me the knowledge that my child was the *smartest*. Do tell, what purpose or benefit is there to having that knowledge? I always acknowledged her academic *gifts*, but understood that that is what they were - gifts - requiring little to no effort. Had she or I been content with the status of *smartest* she would not have been challenged academically. No one here pretends gifts don't exist, but we don't praise the receiver of the gift for having received it. We do praise effort and moreso when the effort is put toward something that does not come without effort. In ds's case that would be gross motor activity. DD1 grew up with a healthy self esteem and is a well rounded adult. Since *my* blinders seemed to work well with her, I will keep em on with ds.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-29-2002
Thu, 11-27-2003 - 11:43am
If a child has exceptional abilitiy in math or reading, a half-way competent teacher and more-or-less on the ball parents won't miss it. It doesn't require comparisons to his/her 20 odd classmates to notice the abilities.


Laura

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 11-27-2003 - 11:44am
Yes I know. And the light bulbs that replaced the dim candles for night reading alleviated the problem. Along with the vision changes, exposure to the squiggles along with direction that the modern young brain need spend unnatural ammount of effort tryig to memorize and interpret them, has affected the way the young brain develops.
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-02-2003
Thu, 11-27-2003 - 11:45am
I truly feel sorry for you and your kids. Perhaps it is your attitude and YOUR competitive nature that you should examine.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 11-27-2003 - 11:46am
No rebuttal then? I win. Didn't you ask the person who presented the seminar how the changes that might result in response to exposure to computers were any different or worse than the changes that might result in response to exposure to all those other modern things we impose upon young brains - like printed matter for instance?

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