Hellooo, Felicia, I'm serious, so what that a WOHP might be able to get someone else to watch the kids other than the SAHP? Until he or she actually does so, he or she is dependent on the SAHP to watch the kids. Kinda like the SAHP is dependent in a financial sense on the WOHP, regardless of whether he or she might be able to get a job, or might be able to get his or her parent(s) to support her.
Edited to add that I'm trying to no avail to determine why one spouse supporting the other financially should be seen as any different than one spouse supporting the other by providing services.
I was never married, but my ex and I lived together for 13 years. Our son was born when we'd been together 3 years and were on the verge of breaking up; we struggled for the next 10 years to make our relationship work and discussed marriage many times over that period. I have some small idea about what it takes to try to keep a failing relationship alive.
My ex and I lived together for 13 years, but we never married. John was born 3 years into our relationship and I've NEVER been the kind of single parent who has no partner questioning her parenting....a fact for which I am extremely grateful, btw :)
I wouldn't wish the go-it-yourself single parenting on anyone. "Specially not you.
Oops! I guess I should check my facts before I go galloping off in defense of someone. Of course, to me, being with someone for 13 years is marriage..without the paper.
Did I ever mention that I miss your old name? It always reminded of me of that scene in Indiana Jones IV where Sean Connery said "..no we named the dog Indiana. "
"However, as she was putting in the long hours at work, her sons were being cared for by a nanny whom they bonded to more strongly than they bonded to their mother. And when you figure that out of a 24 hour day, they spent 10-12 hours of it with the nanny and about 8 hours asleep during the night, that left about 4-6 hours of time she was with them. And then during that time, dinner had to be prepared, homework had to be completed and the boys had to take their baths before going to bed...how much "quality time" did the situation really allow? "
This is roughly my situation. So I don't understand how her sons were bonded more strongly to their nanny.
LOLOLOLOLOL....let me stop laughing and I'll try to answer your ridiculous questions.
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You've obviously never read a single post I've written in the 8+ years I've posted on Ivillage (and 5 or 6 years I've posted here). I don't feel that all people should WOH FT unless that's what works best for their family.
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Okay.
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Depends, I suppose on the level of financing you'd like. Mostly yes--maybe, but for the sake of argument, okay.
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Fine by me.
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How about you wait til you know what they are, instead of presuming to know based on the fact that I think you and your friend are in denial about why she has a broken relationship with her sons?
Very supportive, presuming he wanted to SAH in order to provide a benefit to the FAMILY (and not just to hang out playing pool, or cruising the internet 24/7. If he wanted to be the hands-on parent and do all the stuff (or at least a goodly approximation) of a DCP, I'd have no problems with that--heck, it'd certainly be way cheaper than what I paid in daycare back in the 80s when John needed it. And it would have been a lot less worrisome in my military days, knowing John would have been evacuated by a relative--I mean I adore his DCP that we had in Germany--I ought to, she's his godmother--but still a father would be preferable in such circumstances.
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Please, I don't just get along with my ex and his wife (the woman he cheated on me with and left me for) I vacation with them. I am the QUEEN of compromise.
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But I don't "really want to woh." I like my job fine; it pays great, good benefits (5 weeks vacation after 2 years), and it's interesting and fun. But if I hit the lottery tomorrow I'd mail my building key back. I don't really "want to SAH" either; woh is necessary and I enjoy it. It's my life the way my life is. If my life were different, possibly so would my working status. If I had a dh who really wanted me to SAH, the only issue would be, could his salary alone support the family and still permit him to have quality time WITH us. I would balk heavily at the suggestion it would be better for my fictional dh to work more than 1 job while I SAH--that's NOT the definition of lifemate...not to me anyway.
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No, I would wallow in self-pity, tormenting everyone who came into contact with me over how horrible my fate was to be "forced" to do something I didn't want to do. Sheesh, am I an adult in your scenario or a 5 year old???
ASSuming (dangerous I know, but I like living on the edge) that I'm supposed to be a grown-up here, yeah, I'd make the best of things. I'm pretty sure I'd be okay with it, given I've made it through the man I loved more than life itself leaving me for someone else, two lay-offs, the precipitous drop in income from $32K to $17K, all while keeping my mortgage current and raising a child to adulthood. Yeah, I think somehow I'd find the internal fortitude necessary to deal with the "hardship" of SAH.
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No, this I would NOT need.
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Gee, gosh, really? You think? YOu think maybe I might be able to one day convince myself that raising my kid and keeping my marriage strong might POSSIBLY be something I should value? Do you think that's possible? Gosh, I sure hope so. Gee....maybe Lassie can help me....
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Naw, I'm not a big believer in pretending feces are chocolate bars. If I don't like my life as it is, I do my best to either change it then, or set it up for change when change is possible. For instance, having had a couple of abortive attempts at dating after my ex left, I realized that dating and trying to raise a preadolescent/adolescent/teen was not something *I* personally was going to be good at. So I put off dating. Sure it would have been GREAT to have a sig o during those times, but it wouldn't have been great for my ability to parent in MY situation, so I put it off.
Grownups call these tradeoffs. Perhaps you've heard of them. Tradeoffs don't require that you like, adore and pretend that the less attractive choice is more attractive, only that you acknowledge the less attractive choice as necessary for the time being.
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See above. You know (better than I, apparently) how I love to wallow in my misery. Hopefully, I get to drag everyone else down with me, too! Maybe make the kids so miserable the nanny seems preferable? That would fun!
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I've never had to *try* to look forward to spending days with my kid; I love spending time with him, even now. But that doesn't change the fact that bills have to be paid and the way that gets done at MY house is by WOH. Funny thing is, my kid KNOWS both those facts. That I adore the time we spend together and that working pays the bills.
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Inwardly sulking?? What am I, some passive aggressive pansy? Shouldn't I be openly and loudly sulking? Shouldn't I be making myself and everyone who ever comes in contact with me so completely miserable they want nothing to do with me?
Or maybe....just maybe...I could simply accept life as it is, make the best of things, demonstrate to my kid that a perfect life does NOT mean never doing something you'd rather not do, but means finding something to do that you enjoy enough to making doing it worth it and enjoy the life and time you have to the complete fullest? (no, surely not THAT!!!)
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I think it would be fair to say I DID devote myself to the full-time care of my child. I simply didn't DO all of the care; I delegated when necessary so that the full-time NEEDS of my child (such as food, clothing, housing, medical and education) were also met appropriately. I work FOR my child. everything I've ever done has been for my child, including working.
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No. I WANTED to do everything necessary to provide for my child and that included WOH.
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I don't, although I'm happy enough to explain to you and others here.
<<(even though it wasn't fully your decision)>>
Balls. It's fully my decision just like it was FULLY your supervisor's. She just won't own up to it, but that doesn't change the fact that she CHOSE what she did. I hate (HATE HATE HATE) this supposition that some evil, cruel, mean, irrational spouse forces people do work or stay at home and they have no choice. Sure they have a choice; they can leave. They choose not to take the other choice they have, but it's still THEIR choice.
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If I do, I'm lying to myself, and I'm not big into lying to myself. There are enough things to be in denial over (diet, weight, etc.) to need to slam others for having "better" choices than I appear to.
No, I have NO pity for the woman who would rather stay home, chose not to and then tries to infer that all other WOHMs have broken relationships with their children just because they do. I'm SORRY she has a broken relationship, but the fault for that break is neither WOH nor other women who WOH, nor her dh...but HER and her refusal to speak up for her own real needs and her own real ability to parent. I will sympathize all day long that she lacks the relationship she wants, but if you try to claim it's the fault of WOH, I'm going to argue til the cows come home.
WOH, SAH, WAH...I couldn't care less WHAT people choose as long as it's the best decision for their family.
Am I the only person who grew up in a SAH home (till Dad died) and spent very little time w/Mom?
I hear this all the time (working moms don't spend as much time w/kids), yet my Mom tells me all the time that I spend way more quality time with DD than she did with us - and I work!!!
You know - one of my favorite things about this board is the fact that it helps me NOT feel sorry for myself and realize life is all about choices and you have to make the best of what you have.
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Edited to add that I'm trying to no avail to determine why one spouse supporting the other financially should be seen as any different than one spouse supporting the other by providing services.
Edited 8/18/2004 12:35 pm ET ET by cocoapop
<<>>>
Karen
"A pocketknife is like a melody;sharp in some places,
I wouldn't wish the go-it-yourself single parenting on anyone. "Specially not you.
Karen
"A pocketknife is like a melody;sharp in some places,
Oops! I guess I should check my facts before I go galloping off in defense of someone. Of course, to me, being with someone for 13 years is marriage..without the paper.
Did I ever mention that I miss your old name? It always reminded of me of that scene in Indiana Jones IV where Sean Connery said "..no we named the dog Indiana. "
"When death like a gypsy comes
&nbs
"However, as she was putting in the long hours at work, her sons were being cared for by a nanny whom they bonded to more strongly than they bonded to their mother. And when you figure that out of a 24 hour day, they spent 10-12 hours of it with the nanny and about 8 hours asleep during the night, that left about 4-6 hours of time she was with them. And then during that time, dinner had to be prepared, homework had to be completed and the boys had to take their baths before going to bed...how much "quality time" did the situation really allow? "
This is roughly my situation. So I don't understand how her sons were bonded more strongly to their nanny.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
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You've obviously never read a single post I've written in the 8+ years I've posted on Ivillage (and 5 or 6 years I've posted here). I don't feel that all people should WOH FT unless that's what works best for their family.
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Okay.
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Depends, I suppose on the level of financing you'd like. Mostly yes--maybe, but for the sake of argument, okay.
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Fine by me.
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How about you wait til you know what they are, instead of presuming to know based on the fact that I think you and your friend are in denial about why she has a broken relationship with her sons?
Very supportive, presuming he wanted to SAH in order to provide a benefit to the FAMILY (and not just to hang out playing pool, or cruising the internet 24/7. If he wanted to be the hands-on parent and do all the stuff (or at least a goodly approximation) of a DCP, I'd have no problems with that--heck, it'd certainly be way cheaper than what I paid in daycare back in the 80s when John needed it. And it would have been a lot less worrisome in my military days, knowing John would have been evacuated by a relative--I mean I adore his DCP that we had in Germany--I ought to, she's his godmother--but still a father would be preferable in such circumstances.
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Please, I don't just get along with my ex and his wife (the woman he cheated on me with and left me for) I vacation with them. I am the QUEEN of compromise.
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But I don't "really want to woh." I like my job fine; it pays great, good benefits (5 weeks vacation after 2 years), and it's interesting and fun. But if I hit the lottery tomorrow I'd mail my building key back. I don't really "want to SAH" either; woh is necessary and I enjoy it. It's my life the way my life is. If my life were different, possibly so would my working status. If I had a dh who really wanted me to SAH, the only issue would be, could his salary alone support the family and still permit him to have quality time WITH us. I would balk heavily at the suggestion it would be better for my fictional dh to work more than 1 job while I SAH--that's NOT the definition of lifemate...not to me anyway.
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No, I would wallow in self-pity, tormenting everyone who came into contact with me over how horrible my fate was to be "forced" to do something I didn't want to do. Sheesh, am I an adult in your scenario or a 5 year old???
ASSuming (dangerous I know, but I like living on the edge) that I'm supposed to be a grown-up here, yeah, I'd make the best of things. I'm pretty sure I'd be okay with it, given I've made it through the man I loved more than life itself leaving me for someone else, two lay-offs, the precipitous drop in income from $32K to $17K, all while keeping my mortgage current and raising a child to adulthood. Yeah, I think somehow I'd find the internal fortitude necessary to deal with the "hardship" of SAH.
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No, this I would NOT need.
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Gee, gosh, really? You think? YOu think maybe I might be able to one day convince myself that raising my kid and keeping my marriage strong might POSSIBLY be something I should value? Do you think that's possible? Gosh, I sure hope so. Gee....maybe Lassie can help me....
<>
Naw, I'm not a big believer in pretending feces are chocolate bars. If I don't like my life as it is, I do my best to either change it then, or set it up for change when change is possible. For instance, having had a couple of abortive attempts at dating after my ex left, I realized that dating and trying to raise a preadolescent/adolescent/teen was not something *I* personally was going to be good at. So I put off dating. Sure it would have been GREAT to have a sig o during those times, but it wouldn't have been great for my ability to parent in MY situation, so I put it off.
Grownups call these tradeoffs. Perhaps you've heard of them. Tradeoffs don't require that you like, adore and pretend that the less attractive choice is more attractive, only that you acknowledge the less attractive choice as necessary for the time being.
<>
See above. You know (better than I, apparently) how I love to wallow in my misery. Hopefully, I get to drag everyone else down with me, too! Maybe make the kids so miserable the nanny seems preferable? That would fun!
<>
I've never had to *try* to look forward to spending days with my kid; I love spending time with him, even now. But that doesn't change the fact that bills have to be paid and the way that gets done at MY house is by WOH. Funny thing is, my kid KNOWS both those facts. That I adore the time we spend together and that working pays the bills.
<>
Inwardly sulking?? What am I, some passive aggressive pansy? Shouldn't I be openly and loudly sulking? Shouldn't I be making myself and everyone who ever comes in contact with me so completely miserable they want nothing to do with me?
Or maybe....just maybe...I could simply accept life as it is, make the best of things, demonstrate to my kid that a perfect life does NOT mean never doing something you'd rather not do, but means finding something to do that you enjoy enough to making doing it worth it and enjoy the life and time you have to the complete fullest? (no, surely not THAT!!!)
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I think it would be fair to say I DID devote myself to the full-time care of my child. I simply didn't DO all of the care; I delegated when necessary so that the full-time NEEDS of my child (such as food, clothing, housing, medical and education) were also met appropriately. I work FOR my child. everything I've ever done has been for my child, including working.
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No. I WANTED to do everything necessary to provide for my child and that included WOH.
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I don't, although I'm happy enough to explain to you and others here.
<<(even though it wasn't fully your decision)>>
Balls. It's fully my decision just like it was FULLY your supervisor's. She just won't own up to it, but that doesn't change the fact that she CHOSE what she did. I hate (HATE HATE HATE) this supposition that some evil, cruel, mean, irrational spouse forces people do work or stay at home and they have no choice. Sure they have a choice; they can leave. They choose not to take the other choice they have, but it's still THEIR choice.
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If I do, I'm lying to myself, and I'm not big into lying to myself. There are enough things to be in denial over (diet, weight, etc.) to need to slam others for having "better" choices than I appear to.
No, I have NO pity for the woman who would rather stay home, chose not to and then tries to infer that all other WOHMs have broken relationships with their children just because they do. I'm SORRY she has a broken relationship, but the fault for that break is neither WOH nor other women who WOH, nor her dh...but HER and her refusal to speak up for her own real needs and her own real ability to parent. I will sympathize all day long that she lacks the relationship she wants, but if you try to claim it's the fault of WOH, I'm going to argue til the cows come home.
WOH, SAH, WAH...I couldn't care less WHAT people choose as long as it's the best decision for their family.
Karen
"A pocketknife is like a melody;sharp in some places,
Am I the only person who grew up in a SAH home (till Dad died) and spent very little time w/Mom?
I hear this all the time (working moms don't spend as much time w/kids), yet my Mom tells me all the time that I spend way more quality time with DD than she did with us - and I work!!!
Mondo
You know - one of my favorite things about this board is the fact that it helps me NOT feel sorry for myself and realize life is all about choices and you have to make the best of what you have.
Mondo
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