The reason its more often the male working is because 70% of the time the male makes more money. Period. That was your statistic. Only 30% of women out earn their husbands. Thats not something women can blame on anyone but themselves. Until that changes, nothing else can. Until women are raised to feel responsible for their own financial upkeep in life, and to actually expect to contribute in an obligatory way, rather than at will if and wnen they want to - the way we raise boys to feel obligated for the financial upkeep of themselves and their families - nothing is going to change. Its up to women to change it. Whining at men to step up to the plate and sah is just silly. We haven't put a plate worth stepping up to out there.
70% of Moms working includes far too much very pt and casual work for it to be a meaninful statistic.
Women don't typically leave engineering to become teachers. Just like men don't typically leave engineering to be sahps. There is no stereotype either way to worry about in either of these cases.
Of course, if grimal is at the beginning of some big widespread trans-generational trend of women leaving engineering to become teachers - her daughter will have something to worry about in that regard later. But, I doubt it.
Professional women have demonstrated their willingness to take responsibility for their careers. They are no more likely than professional men to walk out on the job or give up their careers for any reason. Even under educated women are only 5% more likely to leave the workforce. So given the numerous studies documenting the continued lopsideness on the work put in on the homefront with women doing the majority of the child and house care, it seems to me that men are in need of a wake-up call as well.
Just as a side note, but I have to say that I have been really enjoying your and Susannahk2000's contributions to this thread.
Nope. I won't be bringing down the family SES. Being an engineer, I've had the opportunity to put away a nice nest egg. What changes isn't our SES but when I can think about retireing. In the engineering profession, they're trying to push you out the door by about age 55 so my retirement plan was being funded accordingly. I can plan on a 20 year career as a teacher. All that is going to change is how much goes into retirement accounts. The time value of money being what it is, the extra years of interest will mor than make up for lower contributions.
How do you figure I sound like a soon to be SAHM? I won't be opting out of the work force. Just changing professions.
Nope because I've already shown him I can hack it. I'm not stopping working. I'm changing careers. How does that send the message women can't hack it? It's not like I popped out a baby and ran home or something like that.
Since when is teaching chemistry and physics a feminine profesion?
Edited 7/20/2004 8:18 pm ET ET by grimalkinskeeper
That's becaus they wouldn't be perpetuating stereotypes like women are. The stereotypes won't die until the thing the stereotype says will happen becomes unusual. No men quitting to SAH don't send the message men can't handle it. Rather it would be met with dismay because the male version of the stereotype says men will work harder once they have a family. Actually, what we need is men quitting to SAH. When either gender is just a likely to quit to SAH, then and only then will it be held against no one.
The light for you is I don't care if I negatively impacted the situation for all women in the workforce.
I became a teacher knowing I'd quit for the years between birth and all day school beginning for them.
Yes, it is reality. I was saying, I don't care that this is reality. I'm not living my life according to some plan and not being home with my kids during the first years. There is nothing for me to "deal" with because I'm happy with the decision that I decided years ago before motherhood I would make if financially possible and doing everything we could for it to be fianancially possible when parenthood arrived.
Where did I ever whine about anything? I didn't. You must have me confused with someone who cares about women's opportunity in the work force. I do not. I wanted to teach. I wanted to Sah. That is it. I'm not looking to gain advancement. I just want to teach K, earn a little paycheck, when I have another baby, quit & sah for another five years. No whining out of me. Are you whining?
Where did I say men needed to change to accomodate women? I didn't. In fact, I don't think they do need to change. Why was this comment directed at me?
I'm accomodating myself. I'm doing what I planned to do when I graduated high school. I'm doing what I planned to do upon graduating college and taking a teaching job. I'm doing what I planned when the little stick showed the pregnancy line. I'm accomodating myself & quite well I might add.
Again, I never whined. Never. Didn't imply I ever whined & have no clue where you got your misinformation.
I quit & I've gone back to work now. I will quit again down the road.
I won't be whining now or then and didn't whine the years before up until now.
It isn't that I think women deserve less opportunity but if I hav to give up what I want to benefit other women, you can forget it. My life, my dh, my children do come over what other women want.
You are wrong & way off base. I could very well raise my kids (I've been doing it for two years now well) and work. But why should I work when I would rather stay home and play with my dd and spend those first precious years with her? Then I can work in a profession where I can be home with her for summers, holidays, fall breaks, spring breaks, and low & behold even snow days I can stay home with her. I didn't quit teaching because I couldn't work and be a mom. I quit teaching because I wanted to be home with my child & not have to go out in to the work force, not do lesson plans, not be away from her x amount of hours a day, x amount of days a year.
As soon as my little stick shows pregnancy again I will again quit & go back to sah because I want to do it for my child & myself. Not because I can't handle working and being a mom. I had a great teacher, my mother who is my best friend & the best mom I think I could ever ask for who WOH all my growing up years and still does today.
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70% of Moms working includes far too much very pt and casual work for it to be a meaninful statistic.
Of course, if grimal is at the beginning of some big widespread trans-generational trend of women leaving engineering to become teachers - her daughter will have something to worry about in that regard later. But, I doubt it.
1) Women not feeling obligated to provide for themselves and their families longterm (instead of at will as finances dictate) and
2) Men not feeling obligated to do hands-on parenting themselves longterm (instead of at will as mom's endurance dictate)
Are the flipsides of the same coin.
Mondo
Just as a side note, but I have to say that I have been really enjoying your and Susannahk2000's contributions to this thread.
Laura
How do you figure I sound like a soon to be SAHM? I won't be opting out of the work force. Just changing professions.
Since when is teaching chemistry and physics a feminine profesion?
Edited 7/20/2004 8:18 pm ET ET by grimalkinskeeper
I became a teacher knowing I'd quit for the years between birth and all day school beginning for them.
Yes, it is reality. I was saying, I don't care that this is reality. I'm not living my life according to some plan and not being home with my kids during the first years. There is nothing for me to "deal" with because I'm happy with the decision that I decided years ago before motherhood I would make if financially possible and doing everything we could for it to be fianancially possible when parenthood arrived.
Where did I ever whine about anything? I didn't. You must have me confused with someone who cares about women's opportunity in the work force. I do not. I wanted to teach. I wanted to Sah. That is it. I'm not looking to gain advancement. I just want to teach K, earn a little paycheck, when I have another baby, quit & sah for another five years. No whining out of me. Are you whining?
Where did I say men needed to change to accomodate women? I didn't. In fact, I don't think they do need to change. Why was this comment directed at me?
I'm accomodating myself. I'm doing what I planned to do when I graduated high school. I'm doing what I planned to do upon graduating college and taking a teaching job. I'm doing what I planned when the little stick showed the pregnancy line. I'm accomodating myself & quite well I might add.
Again, I never whined. Never. Didn't imply I ever whined & have no clue where you got your misinformation.
I quit & I've gone back to work now. I will quit again down the road.
I won't be whining now or then and didn't whine the years before up until now.
It isn't that I think women deserve less opportunity but if I hav to give up what I want to benefit other women, you can forget it. My life, my dh, my children do come over what other women want.
You are wrong & way off base. I could very well raise my kids (I've been doing it for two years now well) and work. But why should I work when I would rather stay home and play with my dd and spend those first precious years with her? Then I can work in a profession where I can be home with her for summers, holidays, fall breaks, spring breaks, and low & behold even snow days I can stay home with her. I didn't quit teaching because I couldn't work and be a mom. I quit teaching because I wanted to be home with my child & not have to go out in to the work force, not do lesson plans, not be away from her x amount of hours a day, x amount of days a year.
As soon as my little stick shows pregnancy again I will again quit & go back to sah because I want to do it for my child & myself. Not because I can't handle working and being a mom. I had a great teacher, my mother who is my best friend & the best mom I think I could ever ask for who WOH all my growing up years and still does today.
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