"I must have magical powers too. You have to wean a child from sucking...that is why you explore other avenues/ptions for the child to help the child with dealing with the need to suck as they grow older.
I'm not talking about weaning a child from sucking. Nor am I talking about older children. If you'll remember, mbanc nursed each of her children for 1 year. IOW, the time frame we're talking about is from birth to 1 year.
"Mine also spit out a pacifier each one befor 2 weeks. None of them suck their thumbs. They all nursed but we also always used bottles b/c dh wanted to feed and i insisted he was a part of their lives at 2 weeks he is responsible for feeding them. :)"
I preferred to have DH make the impact on the children, from the first day, that mommy only fed them, and therefore love was not always linked with food. I was the ONLY one who loved them who also nourrished them day in and day out. Even with solids, they fed themself, they weren't fed by spoon by another adult who loved them. We never tried pacifiers before 6 weeks so as not to interfere with the beginnings of breastfeeding, but neither wanted anything to do with a paci after that time. Both did suck digits though...my older one stopped by herself at 3, long before she weaned, and the younger has virtually weaned and yet is still sucking her thumb. I suspect if she wasn't such a thumb-sucker she might have nursed longer. Hard to know.
"anyway, I tried to understand your responses to me when i told you i dont understand AND i still dont get what your saying after explanation...sorry. I think i have been quite clear, how i view nursing babies who enter elementary school and why. I also have been VERY clear that i think it is harmful to nurse a eight year old and why."
I understand that you have tried to understand my POV...the problem here is that I haven't seen you say one thing about WHY you think nursing is "wrong" or whatever in school aged kids that can't be debunked one way or another. The "why" of it is too easy to get around, and then you try to think of another "why" to the next issue and it still doesn't hold water IMO.
"You asked me what civilized means to me, reclaim from a savage state."
So does that mean that you feel many 3rd world countries and peoples who are not using *technology*, driving cars, wearing ties to work, eating with knives and forks...are uncivilized?
In my case, with me bussing around or riding my bike, my parents were never around for my dates. I was 14 when I started dating and I went out with the same guy for 8.5 mos.
Yeah but BFing is not just "a desire" on the part of a child (who has been nursing all along). It is along the lines of a close snuggle with mom. Even on days when we clash and I get angry at my kids I try and make a point of snuggling with them and they definitely don't have to do extra jobs or whatever to "merit" snuggles. Nursing is not a toy they want at TRU or a new bike or book or an ice cream. It is a close time with mom and ALL kids, whether they nurse or not, have these times with mom. To say they should have to "earn" the right to nurse is as crazy as saying they have to "earn" the right to a parents' love or hugs or kisses or a long close-up snuggle while watching a movie or reading a book before bed.
I would tend towards the other way...saying that it is ADMIRABLE to see moms who are willing to let their child self-wean, particularily when the mom isn't so hot on the idea of nursing longer but does it because she feels it is important to her child. Not that moms who don't go that route are "bad" obviously, and every mom has her "admirable" moments, but I think it is admirable to respect a child's feelings that something (in this case, nursing) is very important to them.
Woah, I said they are getting to the point where there is "little to no" milk left! It depends on the mom and the child and the situation. In the case where the child is the oldest and there are 4 younger siblings including a newborn, and the oldest is still nursing, sure there will be lots of milk. In the case of the mom who had a breast reduction or insufficient glandular tissue, she may be completely "dry" by the time her baby is 8 mos old if it is a severe case. But she might keep on nursing for another 4 years.
Every child is different. Some no longer like nursing once there is no milk, some don't mind. It doesn't matter one way or another...the milk is "good quality food" if it is there, and if/when it isn't, if the child wants to continue, it isn't harmful either.
I mentioned that there is often little to no milk by the time the child is a lot older in response to the idea that getting comfort and food together aren't a good thing. And I said it meaning that there isn't ALWAYS food. Sometimes there is though, and associating some comfort with food (like I mentioned, feeling warm memories of home when you're away for your first thanksgiving or whatever, by eating mom's favourite coleslaw or something) is not always a bad thing. The bad thing is the person who eats a whole box of oreos and washes it down with a 2L of coke b/c they are "depressed".
There is a difference. And the same applies to BFing...first of all, it's good quality food (when there is some) and secondly it is not ALWAYS going to be available (ie some kids nurse through pgcy when there is little to no milk), and thirdly, when you nurse long enough, usually you do end up with a bunch of nursing sessions, near the end, where you are lucky if you get a drop or 2 of milk. Hardly worth equating "comfort and food" for the sake of a drop or 2 of liquid don't you think?
"My children attached themselves to a stuffed animal and favorite blanket...all of em during our weaning from bottle or breast."
And? Your point would be?
What does a blankie or a stuffed animal have to do with a child's natural, biological, instinctual sucking needs? Seems rather irrelevent IMO.
Also, how exactly do attachments to stuffed animals and blankies encourage independence? How does needing a blankie in order to cope promote independence. How does relying on a stuffed animal to provide comfort and/or safety teach independence?
BTW, how old were your children when they gave up their attachement to special blankies and stuffed animals? Also, what other options/avenues wrt coping mechanisms and comforting techniques did you encourage your children to explore?
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"I must have magical powers too. You have to wean a child from sucking...that is why you explore other avenues/ptions for the child to help the child with dealing with the need to suck as they grow older.
I'm not talking about weaning a child from sucking. Nor am I talking about older children. If you'll remember, mbanc nursed each of her children for 1 year. IOW, the time frame we're talking about is from birth to 1 year.
"Mine also spit out a pacifier each one befor 2 weeks. None of them suck their thumbs. They all nursed but we also always used bottles b/c dh wanted to feed and i insisted he was a part of their lives at 2 weeks he is responsible for feeding them. :)"
I preferred to have DH make the impact on the children, from the first day, that mommy only fed them, and therefore love was not always linked with food. I was the ONLY one who loved them who also nourrished them day in and day out. Even with solids, they fed themself, they weren't fed by spoon by another adult who loved them. We never tried pacifiers before 6 weeks so as not to interfere with the beginnings of breastfeeding, but neither wanted anything to do with a paci after that time. Both did suck digits though...my older one stopped by herself at 3, long before she weaned, and the younger has virtually weaned and yet is still sucking her thumb. I suspect if she wasn't such a thumb-sucker she might have nursed longer. Hard to know.
"anyway, I tried to understand your responses to me when i told you i dont understand AND i still dont get what your saying after explanation...sorry. I think i have been quite clear, how i view nursing babies who enter elementary school and why. I also have been VERY clear that i think it is harmful to nurse a eight year old and why."
I understand that you have tried to understand my POV...the problem here is that I haven't seen you say one thing about WHY you think nursing is "wrong" or whatever in school aged kids that can't be debunked one way or another. The "why" of it is too easy to get around, and then you try to think of another "why" to the next issue and it still doesn't hold water IMO.
"You asked me what civilized means to me, reclaim from a savage state."
So does that mean that you feel many 3rd world countries and peoples who are not using *technology*, driving cars, wearing ties to work, eating with knives and forks...are uncivilized?
Fio
In my case, with me bussing around or riding my bike, my parents were never around for my dates. I was 14 when I started dating and I went out with the same guy for 8.5 mos.
Fio
Yeah but BFing is not just "a desire" on the part of a child (who has been nursing all along). It is along the lines of a close snuggle with mom. Even on days when we clash and I get angry at my kids I try and make a point of snuggling with them and they definitely don't have to do extra jobs or whatever to "merit" snuggles. Nursing is not a toy they want at TRU or a new bike or book or an ice cream. It is a close time with mom and ALL kids, whether they nurse or not, have these times with mom. To say they should have to "earn" the right to nurse is as crazy as saying they have to "earn" the right to a parents' love or hugs or kisses or a long close-up snuggle while watching a movie or reading a book before bed.
Fio
Good points Mary!
I would tend towards the other way...saying that it is ADMIRABLE to see moms who are willing to let their child self-wean, particularily when the mom isn't so hot on the idea of nursing longer but does it because she feels it is important to her child. Not that moms who don't go that route are "bad" obviously, and every mom has her "admirable" moments, but I think it is admirable to respect a child's feelings that something (in this case, nursing) is very important to them.
Fio
Woah, I said they are getting to the point where there is "little to no" milk left! It depends on the mom and the child and the situation. In the case where the child is the oldest and there are 4 younger siblings including a newborn, and the oldest is still nursing, sure there will be lots of milk. In the case of the mom who had a breast reduction or insufficient glandular tissue, she may be completely "dry" by the time her baby is 8 mos old if it is a severe case. But she might keep on nursing for another 4 years.
Every child is different. Some no longer like nursing once there is no milk, some don't mind. It doesn't matter one way or another...the milk is "good quality food" if it is there, and if/when it isn't, if the child wants to continue, it isn't harmful either.
I mentioned that there is often little to no milk by the time the child is a lot older in response to the idea that getting comfort and food together aren't a good thing. And I said it meaning that there isn't ALWAYS food. Sometimes there is though, and associating some comfort with food (like I mentioned, feeling warm memories of home when you're away for your first thanksgiving or whatever, by eating mom's favourite coleslaw or something) is not always a bad thing. The bad thing is the person who eats a whole box of oreos and washes it down with a 2L of coke b/c they are "depressed".
There is a difference. And the same applies to BFing...first of all, it's good quality food (when there is some) and secondly it is not ALWAYS going to be available (ie some kids nurse through pgcy when there is little to no milk), and thirdly, when you nurse long enough, usually you do end up with a bunch of nursing sessions, near the end, where you are lucky if you get a drop or 2 of milk. Hardly worth equating "comfort and food" for the sake of a drop or 2 of liquid don't you think?
Fio
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Because you don't like my answers?
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Again, I don't have an opinion on the act of dating.
PumpkinAngel
"My children attached themselves to a stuffed animal and favorite blanket...all of em during our weaning from bottle or breast."
And? Your point would be?
What does a blankie or a stuffed animal have to do with a child's natural, biological, instinctual sucking needs? Seems rather irrelevent IMO.
Also, how exactly do attachments to stuffed animals and blankies encourage independence? How does needing a blankie in order to cope promote independence. How does relying on a stuffed animal to provide comfort and/or safety teach independence?
BTW, how old were your children when they gave up their attachement to special blankies and stuffed animals? Also, what other options/avenues wrt coping mechanisms and comforting techniques did you encourage your children to explore?
TIA :)
Your choice, but then again I didn't ask for a response nor did ask a question either.
PumpkinAngel
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