We stopped when she was a) more aware of her surroundings (around 18-24 mos) and b) more able to spend some time alone, sleeping alone, partly out of fear of her waking and seeing us and being scared around that age. I mean, if my 3 mos old woke and saw us having sex, I don't think it would scar them for life, nor even bother them. But with a 2yo it might have some sort of lasting impact, or in a very verbal 2yo, it might be spoken of to other people (ie the grocery store clerk hears about what mom and dad do in the morning before they get up). ;-) But with a tiny baby, although we did keep it to when she was asleep, I was not worried about her waking particularily.
Basically, yes. She made it very clear to me that she did NOT think things were cool if I was not nearby. And visual wasn't good enough when she was little...it was *right up next to and smelling/feeling/hearing mom*. She refused to sleep at all if she didn't have her nose stuffed up in my armpit. Go figure. DD2 was never like that.
I'm not saying they can't perceive other people's stress and even feel stressed out about it, but let's say you have a baby who is severely allergic to all formula, and yet you, as a mom, would love more than anything else to wean. Don't you think that the baby's "here and now, I need to be FED food that I can digest" would end up being more important to him than the perception of a stressed out mom?
I realize this is not the case in all babies...this IS an extreme situation. But if you give babies a choice, as newborns, of formula or BM in a bottle (all they have to do is turn their head to choose which nipple to take it from) they will, hands down, choose BM. So given their basic selfishness, I would be surprised if their feelings of wanting to feed really took a "backburner" to mom's feelings of anxiety, unhappiness, etc. When they're hungry, they're hungry.
The earth is flat too. I mean, just look at it. The streets we walk on are flat. There has GOT to be an edge to it somewhere...you'll fall off if you get to the edge. I know they show you giant plate-sized round pictures of the earth, but that doesn't prove to me that it is a sphere. It could well be a flat plate. I'm sure it is.
And that's all the proof I need. ;-) I don't believe in all those "studies" that say it's round. LOL.
I never said that the baby's needs are taking a backburner to the mother's feelings. I said that happiness is more than whether or not something is pleasant. Happiness is made of making one's own best choices and being confident in them.
Yeah. And it's funny, no one yet has brought up the kid who MIGHT think that "gee it would have been nice if mom had kept on nursing me". I will fully admit that I am one of those! My mom weaned me on the bad advice of her ped when I was 7.5 mos old. i asked her what her goal had been in nursing me, and she said she "figured humans needed the milk of their mom for about 18-24 mos". Who knows, if she had had the support to continue, and had not listened to the stupid ped, and had gotten to 24 mos and found it was still working and had a "why fix what's not broken" attitude, maybe she would have let me self-wean. And who knows, maybe today I would have had lovely warm memories of nursing. On the other hand, I don't regret it all TOO much since if she hadn't weaned, probably my little brother would have never been conceived...but still...it makes me wonder.
OK but what happens when your choices end up affecting other people in a big way?
The happiness is no longer just about YOU...it's about other people too. It might make someone really happy to smoke at home. If he lives alone, that is his perogative. But if he has kids or a wife or other live-in person, shouldn't he also take into account their health and basically, long-term, their happiness?
I guess there are areas where "need" and "want" get blurred. If I know that my child with the ultra-sensitive bum will get diaper rash by sitting in her diaper for 5 min. while I get the shower I wanted, does it make it a need to change her before the shower? Some might say "if she sits in it more often her skin will toughen up and she'll get used to it". But aside from that, if I want to avoid the diaper rash in the here and now, yes it is a need to change her ASAP. But does she really NEED it? She WILL survive without being changed in 5 min and will be a bit crabbier with her diaper rash perhaps, but it won't kill her unless her pee is really VERY acidic and eats her bottom right off. ;-)
So...what is a need and what is a want? Do you WANT to not put your child through suffering? Or do you say it is a need they have of being changed asap to avoid diaper rash?
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We stopped when she was a) more aware of her surroundings (around 18-24 mos) and b) more able to spend some time alone, sleeping alone, partly out of fear of her waking and seeing us and being scared around that age. I mean, if my 3 mos old woke and saw us having sex, I don't think it would scar them for life, nor even bother them. But with a 2yo it might have some sort of lasting impact, or in a very verbal 2yo, it might be spoken of to other people (ie the grocery store clerk hears about what mom and dad do in the morning before they get up). ;-) But with a tiny baby, although we did keep it to when she was asleep, I was not worried about her waking particularily.
Fio
Basically, yes. She made it very clear to me that she did NOT think things were cool if I was not nearby. And visual wasn't good enough when she was little...it was *right up next to and smelling/feeling/hearing mom*. She refused to sleep at all if she didn't have her nose stuffed up in my armpit. Go figure. DD2 was never like that.
Fio
I'm not saying they can't perceive other people's stress and even feel stressed out about it, but let's say you have a baby who is severely allergic to all formula, and yet you, as a mom, would love more than anything else to wean. Don't you think that the baby's "here and now, I need to be FED food that I can digest" would end up being more important to him than the perception of a stressed out mom?
I realize this is not the case in all babies...this IS an extreme situation. But if you give babies a choice, as newborns, of formula or BM in a bottle (all they have to do is turn their head to choose which nipple to take it from) they will, hands down, choose BM. So given their basic selfishness, I would be surprised if their feelings of wanting to feed really took a "backburner" to mom's feelings of anxiety, unhappiness, etc. When they're hungry, they're hungry.
Fio
The earth is flat too. I mean, just look at it. The streets we walk on are flat. There has GOT to be an edge to it somewhere...you'll fall off if you get to the edge. I know they show you giant plate-sized round pictures of the earth, but that doesn't prove to me that it is a sphere. It could well be a flat plate. I'm sure it is.
And that's all the proof I need. ;-) I don't believe in all those "studies" that say it's round. LOL.
Fio
Yeah. And it's funny, no one yet has brought up the kid who MIGHT think that "gee it would have been nice if mom had kept on nursing me". I will fully admit that I am one of those! My mom weaned me on the bad advice of her ped when I was 7.5 mos old. i asked her what her goal had been in nursing me, and she said she "figured humans needed the milk of their mom for about 18-24 mos". Who knows, if she had had the support to continue, and had not listened to the stupid ped, and had gotten to 24 mos and found it was still working and had a "why fix what's not broken" attitude, maybe she would have let me self-wean. And who knows, maybe today I would have had lovely warm memories of nursing. On the other hand, I don't regret it all TOO much since if she hadn't weaned, probably my little brother would have never been conceived...but still...it makes me wonder.
Fio
OK but what happens when your choices end up affecting other people in a big way?
The happiness is no longer just about YOU...it's about other people too. It might make someone really happy to smoke at home. If he lives alone, that is his perogative. But if he has kids or a wife or other live-in person, shouldn't he also take into account their health and basically, long-term, their happiness?
Fio
I guess there are areas where "need" and "want" get blurred. If I know that my child with the ultra-sensitive bum will get diaper rash by sitting in her diaper for 5 min. while I get the shower I wanted, does it make it a need to change her before the shower? Some might say "if she sits in it more often her skin will toughen up and she'll get used to it". But aside from that, if I want to avoid the diaper rash in the here and now, yes it is a need to change her ASAP. But does she really NEED it? She WILL survive without being changed in 5 min and will be a bit crabbier with her diaper rash perhaps, but it won't kill her unless her pee is really VERY acidic and eats her bottom right off. ;-)
So...what is a need and what is a want? Do you WANT to not put your child through suffering? Or do you say it is a need they have of being changed asap to avoid diaper rash?
...
Fio
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