When did structure become a bad thing?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
When did structure become a bad thing?
1698
Fri, 07-30-2004 - 8:19am
I am reading the thread about freewheeling nannies below and I hafta say, I just don't get this whole no structure thing. My kids have always thrived on structure. THey liked the predictablity of when things were going to happen. Sure, it has not been a problem to deviate, but what I am reading in some posts is that no structure at all seems to be looked on as optimal, while imposing structure to a child's life is viewed as bad parenting.

We used to live next door to a "no structure" family. The kids ran wild in the neighborhood, the mom never planned dinner so lord only knows if and when the kids ate. Sorry, I don't think that's a good way to live. My kids know we eat dinner at 6:30, so they have to be home.

I can see taht you wouldn't demand that an infant go to bed and wake up at precisely the same time, but is there ever a time to impose structure on a child? So lets say you are the freewheeling type and have always doen things whenever. What happens when you send your child to school where the bell rings at the same time every day?

As far as activities, I realize all kids are different, but when my kids were little, if we just did whatever, whenever, my kids woudl end up grumpy and overtired. My experience is that if say, we were at the beach and I say, oh heck, let's just stay later, the kids woudl be happy at first, but by the days end I would end up with whiny, overtired kids.

Maybe I'm just misinterpreting what I am reading, but I personally think structure is a good thing. When children are small, the structure includes naptimes, mealtimes, etc. As they get older it evolves into boundaries like "be home at 6 for dinner" or "you can't go into soemones house without telling me first". I couldn't imagine living without structure or boundaries for my kids.

Susan

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
Sat, 08-21-2004 - 11:59pm
"Fried steak" in it's usual incarnation is not really "steak" in the true sense of the word. It's very poor-quality round, which only qualifies as steak because is is cut in a thin flat slab shape. Normally, it has to be pounded first with a spike-hammer to make it possible to chew it; the batter serves to hold it together and prevent it from drying out. Fried steak tends to exemplify the upper reaches of extravagance for the West Texas poverty-food diet, and was originally created as a way to pawn off inferior quality beef on ranchhands as something of a special treat. Normally, beef like that has to be cooked for a long time to make it palatable; this is one of the few ways to cook it quickly and still allow for the possibility of chewing it. It tastes rather like meatloaf, which can be quite similar in terms of it's composition and calorie value.

I don't ever make it; too much hassle for too little value. It was a staple in our school cafeterias when I was growing up. I would definitely class it as a "winter" food, though; I consider it way too heavy for a hot summer day.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 08-22-2004 - 12:02am
I *do* buy People magazine, and didnt know it was a faux pas. I just like to know the "stars" are normal too, and just the "nosy girl" part of me comes out where I just cant resist the temptation.
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-08-2003
Sun, 08-22-2004 - 12:44am
Actually letting them have at it vis a vis the big candy holidays is, short of not allowing the candy at all, the best way to go. They take one huge insulin hit instead of many over the course of days and days. Sugar Busters for Kids advocates dealing with these type of holidays this way. If it isn't gone in that first burst out it goes with us. See? You didn't know you were doing it right by having candy for dinner:)
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 08-22-2004 - 1:11am
I *didnt* know i was doing good!! LOL. that is exactly how i look at it. let them eat it and get rid of it, and the candy wont be an issue over weeks on end. My kids have never really had "hyperactive" behavior as a result of sugar, so that really was never a worry, just the jockeying for candy everyday wore me out, so eat it, and be done with it. LOL. wow, i feel special now!! LOL.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
Sun, 08-22-2004 - 1:42am
For the record, I never accused ANYONE of being judgemental about being overweight. What I said was that some posters (and I was not referring specifically to you) appeared to be drawing conclusions about the quality of someone's character based on the type of foods they choose to eat. Not how much they eat or how often they eat, but WHAT they choose to eat. Do you really not see the insult in telling someone that every food that they have admitted eating, and enjoying, is "garbage"? Whether you meant it that way or not, using that term implies that she is ignorant, slovenly, and not as intelligent as you are. It calls up visions of someone rummaging through trash cans. It also implies that you have some superior moral authority, in terms of getting to decide which foods to approve of for other people's diets.

I'm sensitive about this topic b/c it is causing some serious pain and anger in my DH's extended family. Like me, DH was raised in a very poor household. In most poor families, shared food, cooked at home, is the only type of celebration that happens. The pride and joy of the women of those households was the ability to provide what they considered "good" food to guests, food of a quality and in amounts that they would not normally consume, on account of the expense. To women of their ethnic heritage, that meant butter, and eggs, and cream, and spices, and God be praised, MEAT. Maybe not the best meat, but when your normal diet consists only of root vegetables, dried beans, brown bread, boiled or pickled cabbage, and smoked herring, any meat other than organ meat is an extravagance. Fine-textured white bread is a luxury. NOT to offer wine and spirits to guests was a sign of meanness. My father's personal definition of success, his line in the sand between being a good provider and being a failure, was being able to put meat of some kind on the table 3X a day; for a member of our household to refuse to eat it was to insult every backbreaking hour of manual labor he ever did.

The conflict in DH's family has arisen b/c his brother has married a woman who follows a very strict vegetarian diet. She will eat no refined flour, no dried spices, no meat of any kind, no fruit or vegetable that is not fresh AND organic, no dairy, and no wine, tea or coffee. (I should note that she does not follow this diet b/c of religious reasons or allergies, except for the dairy, which she is allergic to.) Everything you put before her is questioned in terms of content and cooking technique. Now if she was content to just simply say "no, thank you" when offered these things, that would be fine, but she feels compelled to tell everyone just why THEY should not be eating them either, because of how unhealthy those things are. She loudly insists that BIL may not eat them either, though he likes them, because she can "smell the reek of that poison on you." My MIL has been brought to tears over this many times in my hearing, though she tries to hide it. She isn't a well-educated woman, and she's in her 70's; she has made an effort to please her DIL, but nothing she has tried is good enough. The sort of food that DIL will eat is food that MIL is ashamed to serve when others are present, b/c she sees it as not being fine enough for guests. She can't afford to serve two different types of meals, nor is she up to learning a whole new slate of cooking techniques at this point in her life. The quality of her cooking has always been a point of pride for her, and it breaks her heart that her son won't eat at her table anymore.

When I read those rather pointed posts, it was SIL's voice I heard in my head, and I just knew that someone, somewhere, was reading that and feeling as hurt and insulted as my MIL often does. Whether she was feeling hurt b/c she is overweight, or because her chocolate cake recipe won first prize at the county fair makes no difference to me.

BTW, When I cook for SIL on major holidays or when they are in town and I invite them, I prepare separate dishes that she and BIL will eat, prepared to their specifications. For other guests, I cook the sort of foods that I know they will enjoy, regardless of what goes into them, because I believe that that is what a hostess should do. As you know, I travel a great deal, and I have never found myself at a loss for something good to eat. Do I cook "traditional Southern foods"? Yes, I do, because they are favorites of my family, though the versions I make are usually much lower in fat and calories than the originals, and it is very difficult to notice the difference. (If you would like to see modern, lighter versions of some of the sort of foods that you are reacting so negatively to, take a look at the cookbooks of Holly Berkowitz Clegg. She has made a career out of lightening Cajun, Creole, and other Southern cuisines. I actually prefer the lighter versions, and so does everyone I know; the more subtle flavors come out very nicely. I make no claims about country-fried steak, though; my personal opinion of that particular dish is best left unsaid.)

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-18-2004
Sun, 08-22-2004 - 1:49am

Is that what we called Chicken Fried Steak in school?

Mondo

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
Sun, 08-22-2004 - 1:54am
Yep. Sure is.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Sun, 08-22-2004 - 3:11am
And again, you missed the point of mine and most of the others posts who were reacting negatively to the food that was mentioned. It wasnt the FOOD. It was the posters insistance that eating like that every day, for basically every meal, was HEALTHY. The only conclusions drawn were about the blind insistence of the posters who kept saying there was nothing wrong with eating like that ALL THE TIME.

I'm sorry your sil is like that, that is rude and unfair of her. But dont project her attitude onto others, when that was NEVER the intention of the original posts on the subject.

dj

Dj

"Now when I need help, I look in the mirror" ~Kanye West~

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Sun, 08-22-2004 - 3:14am
See thats the whole crux of it. No one is saying they care what you eat-it was your insistance that its healthy food. You obviously know its not and choose to eat it anyway-enjoy it!!! Just like a smoker knows that its not good but does it anyway, as long as they arent blowing it in my face, I certainly dont care. Their body and their life!

dj

Dj

"Now when I need help, I look in the mirror" ~Kanye West~

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Sun, 08-22-2004 - 3:15am
How can your palates be expansive if you dont eat a variety of foods though? Or try new things?


dj

Dj

"Now when I need help, I look in the mirror" ~Kanye West~

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