WOH and sleeping issues

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-15-2003
WOH and sleeping issues
2315
Sun, 05-22-2005 - 10:34am

We were at a dinner party last night at the home of one of dh's coworkers. They have 2 boys, 6 and 4. They have a bunch of sleeping issues (kids 'scared' at night, won't fall asleep in their own bed, won't go to bed without mom or dad cuddling them, etc.) The mom blames herself because since she works all day and misses them so much she tends to cuddle with them late at night and they fall asleep in a pile on the bed all together. She said that if she SAH, they wouldn't have the same issues.


I sah. For us, bed time is a rigid, welcome respite at the end of the day. Dh has no desire to keep them up either, lol.

Meldi

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iVillage Member
Registered: 10-16-2003
Thu, 05-26-2005 - 11:59am

You gather all this from her posts on this thread?

She may be rigid about bedtimes, etc. but nowhere do I see someone who is "sad" and not enjoying her children.

Just because she doesn't wax poetic like some other posters doesn't mean she doesn't treasure this time just as much. Having a certain view of how life will change once her kids grow up is also not a sign that she is this pathetic figure. Much of what she said is true. I adore my mom but I have less to do with her every day life the older I grow. Not because I don't care about her but once you have your own family you simply are not involved in as intimate a level as when you literally depend on your parent for EVERYTHING.

To me she seems like a parent with strong views on certain issues who nevertheless is a passionate and loving towards her kids as any other mother.

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 05-26-2005 - 12:07pm

PNJ is always the first to post a birthday greeting or a message of sympathy. I have never found her harsh in my dealings with her.


She has more rigid views of parenting than I do or some others on the board but I wouldn't dare to assume she does not like being a parent or she resents her kids. Heck, I agree with most of what she said about sleep issues and I certainly have resented my children. I don't think it makes me a bad parent or a sad person. It just makes me someone that processes feelings different than other parents.


PNJ's kids have a great mother and a great father. They have love, food in their stomach, shelter over their heads and a kick butt nanny. They have a mother that is passionate in her beliefs and in her career. She is passionate about her future and their future. She has planned carefully to get what she wants out of her life. I could only dream my parents had shown as much planning about their future and my college.


I would say her children are better off than some children out there. They are not abused. They are not hungry. They are not neglected.


I find nothing sad about her parenting or her outlook on life. It is different than mine but how boring would it be if we all felt the same?


"I do not want to be a princess! I want to be myself"

Mallory (age 3)

      &nbs

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-16-2005
Thu, 05-26-2005 - 12:23pm

"You gather all this from her posts on this thread?" Why would you think so? I believe they've both been reading each other's posts for years. There have been many conversations of this type, which you must know, because you conclude the opposite:

"Just because she doesn't wax poetic like some other posters doesn't mean she doesn't treasure this time just as much.... he seems like a parent ... who ... is a passionate and loving towards her kids as any other mother."

Not linked to Felicia specifically, but I always wonder when people make statements like this. It seems that there is a presumption that all parents are all equally overjoyed about parenting - no matter what they actually say about parenting. That seems absolutely impossible to me. Why are we to think it?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-16-2005
Thu, 05-26-2005 - 12:28pm
"I would say her children are better off than some children out there." I would go much farther than that and say I'm sure they are much better off than the vast majority. I hope you're not suggesting that anyone thinks she's a bad parent. That's a completely different question, however, from wondering if she doesn't have more complicated and conflicted feelings than many about BEING a parent.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Thu, 05-26-2005 - 12:30pm

No, I gather this from many posts on many threads over the last few years.


And I think Felicia loves her children and is very passionate about them in some ways-I certainly have never said or implied that she doesnt love her children. She just seems very anxious to get those childhood years out of the way.


Dj

"Now when I need help, I look in the mirror" ~Kanye West~

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Thu, 05-26-2005 - 12:34pm

I, for one, never ever intended to imply she was a bad parent. I think Felicia is a very loving mom and I admire a lot of things about her. But I do think its kind of sad (for lack of a better term) that she seems to often feel like parenting is a bit of a burden.


Dj

"Now when I need help, I look in the mirror" ~Kanye West~

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
Thu, 05-26-2005 - 12:35pm

Well, I know I represent just one family and am not a sleep specialist with tons of data so perhaps my input on this should not be considered worthy, but your "rule" doesn't apply here.

We aren't all that rigid about who sleeps with whom around here. (My only rule is that the dog doesn't get to sleep in my bed.) Currently, my dh is in physical training and gets up at 5 am every morning. Because he needs to go to bed early, around 9, and I am in no way ready to go to bed that early, he chooses a child to be his snuggle bunny for the night and they go to bed together. This is his way of spending quality time with a child when he works such long hours and isn't really available to us. When it is my turn to go to bed, I sometimes decline to move the child and I just sleep in whichever child's bed is available. This new thing we've been doing has not created any more night time disturbances than normal; in fact, it solves a couple of our small night time issues (like me bothering my dh when I crawl into bed late.) Our children don't think they get to sleep with daddy whenever they want to, they haven't become dependent on it as the only way to get to sleep. It is simply a little treat and a way for our family to stay close in a unusually time-crunched period of our lives.

I agree that nighttime is for sleeping. I just don't care who is doing it with whom at my house. And sleeping next to a three year old on a semi-regular basis has yet to make me so incapacitated I can't drive safely the next day.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-16-2003
Thu, 05-26-2005 - 12:50pm

Yes, I know there have been back and forth conversations like this before. It just seems like the whole "And while I think that has much more to do with personal unhappiness than anything else, it still strikes me as kind of sad. I feel bad for her" was emerging now because of this thread in particular. I don't know if those particular words had been said before in other conversations. If they have I must have missed them as I don't follow every thread. I know they have disagreed before but I didn't realize she felt that PNJ was unhappy and sad. And I find the whole "I feel bad for her" to be very patronizing IMO.

"It seems that there is a presumption that all parents are all equally overjoyed about parenting - no matter what they actually say about parenting. That seems absolutely impossible to me."

First of all I said she feels as passionate about her kids as any other mother...not about parenting per se. I know many people who could take or leave many tasks associated with parenting and others that adore all these tasks. I wouldn't rate the love of the people that enjoy changing diapers as more as those who can't stand it. Some people enjoy certain phases more and others love every stage of development. I don't think that affects how deeply we love and care for our children...even if we hate newbornhood enough that we get ill just thinking about it (that wasn't the case with me but I know other people for who that is the case)

And I said "seems." I can't know anything about anybody "for a fact" through this medium. I take the totality of all the posts I've read and draw observations and personal conclusions. I try to give most people the benefit of the doubt that they love their children if they say they do. I try not to be distracted by the presentation of some posters (there are those who practically write lyrical poems about the beauty of nursing a baby at 3 am and others who are very brusque and direct in their writing style like Felicia)

I saw a post that seemed to me to be unduly harsh and I don't agree with its conclusion (That she is an unhappy person)

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-16-2005
Thu, 05-26-2005 - 1:11pm

I wasn't talking about Felicia but was expanding it to be a general question, to wit, are we all supposed to believe everyone feels equally delighted about parenting? If so, why are we supposed to believe that, when reason would suggest that's not possible?

I said nothing about whether feeling equally delighted about parenting has anything to do with loving your children or being a good parent.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 05-26-2005 - 1:18pm

I agree, and this is coming from a family that *did* have sleep issues. (Translation--*I* was not getting enough sleep, and *I* resented being awakened at night. The kids were getting planty of sleep.)

One way in which we resolved the problems was by letting the kids sleep in the same room when they wanted to. They had their own rooms, but we also got a trundle bed that fit under DS's bed. DD slept in there for about a year. Now she sleeps in her own bed in her own room, but the trundle is useful for sleepovers and house guests. Later, DS started sleeping in DD's room, on a mat on the floor. When they had each other, they didn't need me to help them get to sleep. They eventually annoyed each other enough so that having their own rooms seemed like a treat.

I still let them sleep with me when DH goes out of town, but they know that is an exception.

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