WOH and sleeping issues

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-15-2003
WOH and sleeping issues
2315
Sun, 05-22-2005 - 10:34am

We were at a dinner party last night at the home of one of dh's coworkers. They have 2 boys, 6 and 4. They have a bunch of sleeping issues (kids 'scared' at night, won't fall asleep in their own bed, won't go to bed without mom or dad cuddling them, etc.) The mom blames herself because since she works all day and misses them so much she tends to cuddle with them late at night and they fall asleep in a pile on the bed all together. She said that if she SAH, they wouldn't have the same issues.


I sah. For us, bed time is a rigid, welcome respite at the end of the day. Dh has no desire to keep them up either, lol.

Meldi

Pages

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-16-2005
Thu, 05-26-2005 - 5:33pm

Two possibilities. 1. Like you say, it's not her style to include a "disclaimer," 2. "Disclaimer" doesn't really apply, and gets tacked on occasionally as a societally acceptable "cover." (I would note that she frequently talks about the how much she enjoys her work and speaks very little negative about it - the reverse seems to be true WRT almost every aspect I can think of of her home life.) In any case, I don't really care which is the case with her as a practical matter, as she seems to be a perfectly good parent. I hope for HER sake it's the former, as I'd hate to think that she DIDN'T find deep satisfaction in something that is, after all, a huge part of one's life.

Take it out of the parenting realm. Two people, one of whom talks 90% of the time about how they love their job and how positive its effects are on their life. One who talks 90% of the time about what frustrates or irritates them about it. Are we to assume that they are equally happy with their jobs, #1 is sugarcoating much, and #2 is just venting and assumes everyone would know they delight in their job?

Your posts have the tone of suspecting that people who do discuss the joys of parenting in unequivocal tones are full of BS. Are you aware of that?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-29-2003
Thu, 05-26-2005 - 5:44pm

ITA. The women who invoke the MO most often are, IMO, and no pun intended, the fiercest competitors of the lot of us.

And I also find it rude to imply that those of us who say we don't mind a scared toddler or preschooler climbing into bed with us are dishonest.

Congratulations! I'm so happy to hear it. I just heard the good news and popped back over, just in case you were still checking in.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-16-2005
Thu, 05-26-2005 - 8:24pm
I know we've had the "hard" conversation before. I know and completely appreciate your feelings on the subject, and why you have them. Not quite what I was intending here. You've had a lot of circumstances which make your parenting situation complicated - anyone would find it so. "What I am doing differently that parenting is not easy street?" Easy - parenting in a situation that is not easy street. What I mean here is, does everyone who is on easy street, so to speak, take equal pleasure in parenting? Are we to avoid even thinking about that question because some people suspect there's something wrong with them if the answer is no? Additionally, I find that question a completely separate issue from the question of whether the answer to it makes a difference in whether one is a good parent - I would actually argue no on that one, in case it wasn't clear. There just seems to be a lot of resistance even to exploring the possibility that not all moms are equally delighted at all mom life entails.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-16-2005
Thu, 05-26-2005 - 8:34pm
"I guess for me it's the huge disconnect between the desire so deep to HAVE children and the complete lack of evidence of pleasure IN them." I wouldn't go so far as to say "complete lack of evidence," but I don't get the really-loves-it-just-venting vibe either. And not just not here, but ever. I find she talks about her work in terms of pleasure and gain almost uniformly. Family life, the reverse. And that's not something that makes me feel like gloating either. "I'd really LOVE to be able to wave a magic wand so she'd enjoy it more..." Yes, precisely. It's not the Mommy Olympics to want more joy for someone than they currently seem to be experiencing.
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-16-2003
Thu, 05-26-2005 - 8:53pm

"Your posts have the tone of suspecting that people who do discuss the joys of parenting in unequivocal tones are full of BS. Are you aware of that?"

I completely disagree with that. I obviously came into this thread to play devil's advocate. In particular I am taking a specific position in response to a post that I thought was way off base. If another poster had come here and called you let's say "deluded & sad" for your "dishonest way of talking about parenthood" and perhaps had thrown in there that she felt "sorry" for you because of your delusion I would have similarly felt "whoa....that is completely uncalled for...that is simply the way she feels and expresses herself about parenting"

It's kind of like that friend everyone has (or at least I do!) who *never* fights with her husband. You know it's true because you observe it. You see their dynamic in play. And yet, people have a hard time believing her that it's really true. She must be "repressing" or "faking it" No way! I truly belive there are people who are just calm & level-headed in their spousal relationships. I'm sure not one of them but God bless them! And yet you also know that you love your husband just as much as she does. Different people. Different dynamic.

"I would note that she frequently talks about the how much she enjoys her work and speaks very little negative about it"
"Two people, one of whom talks 90% of the time about how they love their job and how positive its effects are on their life. One who talks 90% of the time about what frustrates or irritates them about it. Are we to assume that they are equally happy with their jobs, #1 is sugarcoating much, and #2 is just venting and assumes everyone would know they delight in their job?"

Honestly? I think that's just the dynamic of the board. Maybe I'm being too charitable. I think because of her particular position (CTWOHM..is that the acronym?) she might be defensive about proving (over & over as is the case with these type of boards) why she is willing to tear herself from her precious babies everyday;) She is often put in the defensive about why she would WOH if she doesn't have to.

Also, I don't find her talking with passion about her job per se...more about the fact that she can go out and still be in the professional realm and still be "an adult." I don't necessarily read it as someone who adores her job, but someone who really enjoys her lifestyle and the balance she has achieved and her job is the key to that. Again, I could be wrong.

As far as the whole being honest about what it means to be a parent I think you have to be honest about how YOU experience parenting. If it happens that you are completely at ease with it...well then that is your truth.

I have a friend who is an APer (with one child who is my DD's age). The girl was born to be a mother...that's what I tell her! I look to her as a resource, an example and for advice. When I am at my wits' ends I often think "What would X do?" Seriously! But I have to say I don't often vent with her about my "evil" thoughts....she just can't relate. I think she would look at me like I was an alien!!! I have other girlfriends for that who when I express these frustrations will be like "Girrrrl...let me tell you how I was ready to send little Johnny to dominican republic today" LOL!!

It's good to have those two types of people in your life.

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-15-2003
Thu, 05-26-2005 - 9:03pm

I never meant to imply that parents who say they

Meldi
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 05-26-2005 - 9:23pm

I don't know. I have seen us discuss this a thousand times on the board and it never is a pretty sight. Mommy Olympics, TVC gets thrown in. People are accused of being sad or dishonest or too rigid.


I am not objective. I can usually debate anything but the fact that parenting is hard for me hits too close to the surface. Parenting is so elemental to my self...it is so much a part of me that I can't argue the emotional side of it. I, as I said before, get completely defensive and prickly.


I don't think everyone finds the same pleasure in parenting--even those that find absolute joy and no despair in parenting. I think it is completely subjective.


I also think we can not have a true, honest to God, conversation about the emotional cost of motherhood without stripping ourselves of ego and defensiveness. Heck, as many times as we have had this conversation, I still fell into old habits.


I read your post several times and I am still not sure if I actually answered your question. I know you mean it more broadly than I am addressing it but I can only speak for myself.


"I do not want to be a princess! I want to be myself"

Mallory (age 3)

      &nbs

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-29-2003
Fri, 05-27-2005 - 7:55am

I just realized another thing I don't like about the term "Mommy Olympics." It's narcissistic. The idea is that one mom is doing something with her child (nursing, comforting him after a nightmare, etc.) not because of her relationship with her child, but primarily because of a relationship with another mom (the one who cites the MO). Can you see how narcissistic that is? My younger son came into our room last night. I can assure you that making you or any other mom feel inferior as I settled him back to sleep was the last thought on my mind.

And if we're all being honest here, then the phrase "when little to no enjoyment is to be found in those early months" DOES sound sad to me. It does. I'm sorry. It's not because my kids slept 16 hours through the night from birth. It's not because I had it easy. My first son had eating/digesting issues that complicated things, and my husband suffered a brain injury when my second son was a few months old, from which he's still recovering. I can't imagine how much sadder I would have been if I hadn't enjoyed getting to know these new people in my life.

Congratulations! I'm so happy to hear it. I just heard the good news and popped back over, just in case you were still checking in.
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-05-2005
Fri, 05-27-2005 - 8:25am

I think the issue is with how people define a problem.

Not everything that is less than ideal constitutes a problem for most people. There are those who always seem to want to define a problem every time they have an issue to deal with. For example the issue may be "I hate poopy diapers, I hate dealing with them, I hate planning for them. I hate diapers". Lots of people have that issue but they just - deal and accept. There is no problem to be associated with an untoilet trained 6 month old afterall. There is no problem associated with the fact that a parent has to therefore deal with diapers, like it or not. This is just life. There are some however who end covninced that there is a problem in the fact that THEY have to deal with this when they don't want to. And thats when it gets annoying.

However. On the other hand. Some parents really DO have a diaper related problem to deal with. If the parent pukes every time they are presented with a poopy diaper and therefore really can't manage diaper changes - now they have a problem. The problem isn't with babies or diapers or parenting. Its a specific problem for that person. And they DO need to stop thinking the issue is about babies and diapers and parenting. Its not. Its a physical or psychological issue with that parent. That parent has an issue and they have to deal with it. The problem is with them, not with their situation. Same for other things.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-05-2005
Fri, 05-27-2005 - 8:53am

I wonder how various people fare in the company of anyone. How YOU feel is up to YOU. Not to anyone else.

P1 is out of shape, trying to get in shape and has an exercise routine that is a mile walk daily. P1 talks about how hard exercise is and how exhausted, famished and sore she is at the end of her walk. Its so mentally challenging to keep pushing herself to keep doing it. She just hates that life forces her to do this in order to maintain health. Why in the world could it not be that sitting on a couch watching tv eating potato chips is healthy? Life just really blows in this regard.

P2 is in great shape. Always was in great shape. Currently runs 5 miles a day and works out at the gym. This is practically not doing anything for P2 who figures she practically gave up exercise when she had her first baby. P2 has never found exercise to be physically or mentally demanding to the point of being a negative life component. She is one of those people for whom exercise is a huge plus. And can't imagine why anyone would want to spend more than a little time on a couch watching TV. And with her lifestyle she can eat as may potato chips as she wants - but how much of those can one person want in a day?

What exactly is P2 allowed to "admit" to P1 about her views and experience with exercise and life without making P1 feel insecure, and without lying????? I've met P1s. I've met P2s. I'm somewhere in between. It never occured to me to think either group were LYING just because I don't figure I measure up or down on the whole exercise thing. I think some people need to develop their ability to admire and draw inspiration from those who just seem to be able to do things in a way they can't, and toss the whole insecurity thing.

Pages