WOH/Kids/Feminism: WDYT?
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| Tue, 02-08-2005 - 9:06am |
Okay, let's debate something else. One morning a few months ago, I was crabby to DH about having to get ready for work. DH said, "Well, if you don't want to go to work, quit!"
Later that day, I told him I was just venting, and then I told him some of the reasons I really do like WOH. One reason was something to the effect that I wanted to WOH as part of at-home feminism for our DD's. He said he had no idea what I was talking about.
I thought about it some and decided that although this is a heartfelt idea for me, it's still fuzzy. I suppose I meant that I want to show my DDs how to live independently of a man, in the sense of income, ability to make one's way in the world, and so on, even if they choose marriage & kids. My feelings of pride in my own mom, who was a WOH mom, come into it, too.
Caution: I don't mean in any way to suggest anything the least bit negative about SAH moms. That's not what this is about. Nor do I mean to suggest that anyone has to WOH to teach their kids feminist or gender neutral values. That's not what this is about, either.
Do you think there's any value in WOH as part of raising kids? Please help me clarify my thinking.
Sabina

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***Since I don't need to know that for either this discussion or their taxes...no. But I do know how much they make, save, and put away for retirement as all of those are part of the tax return. Which is relevant to this discussion.***
Since the amount that one fritters away on those 'extras' impacts how much one has available *to* save, (because we should all know by now that while it *should* work the other way around, it often *doesn't*) then it does have to do with the discussion. Unless you're saying that you keep a close eye on everyone's bank accounts or maintain them once you've given your advice? And if that's the case then I'd wager that you are dealing with people with far more money that the "average" because I don't know of anyone outside of small business owners around here that utilize personal accountants to maintain their accounts. To consult? Sure- but not to handle thier finances on an ongoing basis.
***Perhaps...but I have a wide variety of friends of all ses's, considering the amount of money that is invested in the stock market, the popularity of 529plans, and the continued talk about social security and what's happening or not happening there....I would think that quite a few people are concerned with financial investing/planning.***
I don't disagree that "quite a few people are concered with financial investing/planning" what I *do* disagree with, given statistics to the contrary, is that the *majority* of Americans are investing/planning in the manner that you've described. I believe it was you who previously said something about maxing out contributions to 401k's etc.?
***Yes...because why would you go back to work then? You said one could live and live comfortably while saving and then being able to help out with college....all with a family of 4 on 37K. Why would you need to go back to work then and forgo homeschooling and having a sahm?***
I said that one *could* live and live comfortably on around 40,000. Not that one *had* to. Once my children were school aged it would be irrelevant whether I were at home during the time they were at school, now wouldn't it? For me, having a higher SES would outweigh homeschooling, but not being at at-home parent on 40,000. So while my children were under 5/6 (whatever school age cutoff is here) my priority would be to be an at-home parent. Once my children were of school age, my priority would be to increase our income. Understand?
***What about real estate tax?***
Real estate taxes *are* property taxes. At least as they define them here in Ohio. Ours are 1200/yr.
***You said <> So are you adding rare to the example as well as an extra $3K a year?***
Read the statement again... It says "...who doesn't have debt ~BEYOND~ a house and car payment". It does not say that it is the rare person *who doesn't have a car payment*. A simple misunderstanding to be sure, but a misunderstanding on your part nonetheless.
***If one lives in a commute area...not possible in all parts of the country and 20$/bus pass? I think in this area and quick check of one of the Ohio sites shows $50/month for a bus pass alone.***
Never said it *was* possible in all areas of the country, and actually I just found out last night that they upped the rate from 20 to 39 (DH just checked his pay deductions). But at the time of the writing, it had been 20 to my knowledge. That is what DH pays- I don't know what the rest of Ohio is paying.
***That's 5$ day for 3 meals for 4 people. Break that down by meal, that's 1.66 meal or .41 a person per meal. Does this include a healthy diet? How....give me an example of how you can spend only 5$ and feed 4 in one day.***
Baby- breastfeeding, no cost. (Although that isn't my current situation it could have been if I had to have- I chose time with my son and my emotional wellbeing over breastfeeding my daughter- bad me...). 1yr old, eating table food and whole milk. Breakfast generally includes oatmeal or eggs/toast either with fresh or frozen fruit or veggies. DH isn't a breakfast eater. Oatmeal costs me $1.50 for 2lb 10oz of generic whole oats which last 2 weeks to a month depending on how often I eat them and whether I have one or two servings (a serving being a half cup). Eggs are under a dollar a dozen, one for breakfast with a slice of toast (bread being around a dollar, dollar twenty five) Pack a chipped ham sandwich for DH (bread, butter and ham- he likes it simple) ham being under $3/lb or DH is in meetings where lunch is provided. Simple crockpot soup, sandwiches or leftover dinner for me (meals under $1.66- try a Taste of Home magazine for various ideas- they're great ;) Dinner is generally fairly cheap- I can buy chicken either in bulk for $1.99/lb on sale, as a whole bird for around $1.20 on sale or $.69/lb as thighs/drumsticks. I can get rice in bulk at a very low price (I forget exactly how much, but it's cheap), dried beans are like $.50/bag (1lb bags I believe). Canned veggies are around $.33/can... Snacks- figure $1.20-something for flour and sugar (each), eggs as I'd mentioned above, milk ($1.99 on sale or powdered- I'm not sure how much but cheaper than $1.99) Add some cocoa powder for I believe $3-$4 that will last for quite some time and some vanilla which I got in bulk when my dad went to Costa Rica (I'll never have to buy vanilla again in this lifetime LOL!) and I can make cakes, cupcakes etc. for sweet snacks, pancakes etc. $1 for things like pretzles etc. Yogurt $.50...It really all depends on how *much* one eats *as well as* how much things cost- but that's somewhat of an idea of what sort of diet/meals one *could* put together. Once I get my stuff organized and put this into action I'll be happy to share my exact menus and grocery receipts if you like. :)
***Full coverage? Your dh works for the government you said?***
In network for appointments and diagnostics. I believe fillings and other work is covered at 80% if I'm remembering correctly. Sorry, but while I'm an anal-retentive brusher/flosser, I'm not so anal about keeping up my 6-month appts. ;) Once again- bad me... ;)
***Where is the word save? Can you link me to where you stated you saving for college and not helping with college?***
Then that's a misunderstanding. Still, one can give the kids the money one would otherwise be saving. *shrugs* No real significant difference in terms of being able to help. Unless you consider only contributions over a certain amount or a certain percentage to be helping... We also didn't discuss the possibility of taking out parental college loans.
***Life insurance for you? How much per year for term for you?***
About $250/yr for me in term, $475 for him. 150,000 coverage for me, 500,000 for him (that we would pay for).
***Lots of conditions and circumstances make this budget work. That's the first big hole. Its a carefully balanced tightrope one is walking.***
Which do you want to talk about- hypotheticals or my own situation? You keep flipping back and forth between the two.
***I'm not saying one couldn't live on 37K...I just find it hard to say that someone is living comfortably, saving for retirement and helping out with college for the kids.....***
Your idea of comfortable and someone else's idea of comfortable probably aren't the same then.
Wytchy
A parent has to be able to avoid living a child's life vicariously through the child, or that parent is going to be of no use whatsoever.
Parenting is certainly about skiing and soccer and activities. As parents, in our home anyway, we decide what sort of opportunities we would like to provide for the children, in terms of what we want for them and in terms of who they are and what they want for themselves. And what we want to be doing as a family.
No parent is the be-all and end-all of their children's existence.
So lets do it for real. *Horse Girl* is to *gives up her horse* as *Bubble Bath Girl* is to *gives up indoor plumbing*.
Neither of you are going to die. Enjoy.
Has it every occured to you that no individual even needs any other particular individual alive in order to survive? Unless, perhaps, they are a siamese twin? Just about any human experience loss of any kind is about coming to terms with the absense of something to which one has become accustommed. If one is experiencing the loss or the grief, one is continuing to survive. Therefore, there is really no loss one can suffer, without being deemed *spoiled*, according to your definition.
I wonder what sort of spoiled fit you might throw if your husband decided he couldn't afford to pay the utlity bills, and you lost your indoor plumbing and electricity?
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