WOH/Kids/Feminism: WDYT?

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-29-2004
WOH/Kids/Feminism: WDYT?
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Tue, 02-08-2005 - 9:06am

Okay, let's debate something else. One morning a few months ago, I was crabby to DH about having to get ready for work. DH said, "Well, if you don't want to go to work, quit!"

Later that day, I told him I was just venting, and then I told him some of the reasons I really do like WOH. One reason was something to the effect that I wanted to WOH as part of at-home feminism for our DD's. He said he had no idea what I was talking about.

I thought about it some and decided that although this is a heartfelt idea for me, it's still fuzzy. I suppose I meant that I want to show my DDs how to live independently of a man, in the sense of income, ability to make one's way in the world, and so on, even if they choose marriage & kids. My feelings of pride in my own mom, who was a WOH mom, come into it, too.

Caution: I don't mean in any way to suggest anything the least bit negative about SAH moms. That's not what this is about. Nor do I mean to suggest that anyone has to WOH to teach their kids feminist or gender neutral values. That's not what this is about, either.

Do you think there's any value in WOH as part of raising kids? Please help me clarify my thinking.

Sabina

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Thu, 02-10-2005 - 4:46pm

Lol, sweetie if the worst thing to happen to you was your parents selling your house at 21, you had a very cushy childhood. Which is great-I hope to give my kids the same. I dont think a child having to move into a different house equates a *rougher upbringing* either. I mean, why were you so upset?? You werent even living there anymore, were you??


Yes, their father dying would be traumatic. But you know what? If mom had the attitude of *Okay this house is just too big for the 3 of us now, lets buy a jazzy new condo instead-maybe a place that has a pool even!* rather than the attitude of *OMG!!! We have to SELL the HOUSE. WHATEVAH will we DO????* then trauma would be very very minimal. Especially, as

Dj

"Now when I need help, I look in the mirror" ~Kanye West~

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Thu, 02-10-2005 - 4:49pm

I totally agree. Mine and dh's overall income falls just short of that figure, and we certainly cant afford horses!! Nor

Dj

"Now when I need help, I look in the mirror" ~Kanye West~

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 02-10-2005 - 4:52pm
I don't think you had a "rougher upbringing" because you moved between houses - don't even know if you did move while growing up.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2003
Thu, 02-10-2005 - 4:56pm
But they *are* self-sufficient .. just not able to provide horses and crystal chandeliers.

Choose your friends by their character and your socks by their color.  Choosing your socks by their character makes no sense and choosing your friends by their color is unthinkable.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 02-10-2005 - 4:57pm

DJ--I am sorry but that is just really naive. After the loss of a father, children need stability and change is not recommended. Moving would have been very traumatic to my children because their father's imprints are still on this house. The pictures he hung for Zak. The paint he picked out for Alex. The tire marks he left in the kitchen with his bike.


When the move is forced, it is traumatic. Children are not stupid...they know when the move is not welcome no matter how exciting the surviving spouse makes it. It might not bother you but how do you really know it would not bother the kids?


Mondo lost her father...she could tell us from the child's perspective but I know, from the surviving spouse perspective,

"I do not want to be a princess! I want to be myself"

Mallory (age 3)

      &nbs

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Thu, 02-10-2005 - 4:59pm

Its hard for me to take a woman seriously who is

Dj

"Now when I need help, I look in the mirror" ~Kanye West~

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-29-2002
Thu, 02-10-2005 - 5:00pm

But apparently, that woman was able to be self-sufficient in the end, just not with a large house and horses. This may be more typical of Sweden (though I expect that it is increasingly the case in the US as well), but the reality in the event of divorce or death of either spouse here would mean a downgrade in income level and status for both parents. The joke here (no joke really) is that most houses on the market are there because of a divorce. Most people (male and female), post-divorce, end up in apartments or town-houses because both incomes are actually needed to maintain the nice house in the nice neighborhood. So is neither parent capable of being self-sufficient because neither one can separately continue to provide the same level post death or divorce?

Laura

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Thu, 02-10-2005 - 5:04pm

I am not saying there would not be trauma. You already know that its a life changing event. But if they realistically are going to have to sell the mcmansion in order to survive, I think if the parent presents it properly to the kids, they would be okay.


The whole money story irritates the cr@p out of me anyway-like I said, this woman is crying woe is me because she *only* got a 350k life insurance policy and had to sell her HORSES???? I mean really!!


Plus you werent living in a home that was outside your means, right?


Dj

"Now when I need help, I look in the mirror" ~Kanye West~

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-29-2004
Thu, 02-10-2005 - 5:09pm
Yes.
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-04-2004
Thu, 02-10-2005 - 5:10pm

***1)why do we, as a society, think that if we want to provide a role model to an African American male youth in a ghetto somewhere, we need to find an African American male, role model.***

That doesn't exactly address the issue. Firstly because a SAHM can be a *wonderful* role model to those who value motherhood and parenting and feel that parenting their own children on a full time hands-on basis is not only a valid choice, but one that is to be respected and viewed as equally important to any career generating a paycheck. Secondly because if we're talking about "finding" a role model for African American ghetto males, then obviously we're talking about looking outside of the family. Who is to say that there isn't value in having role models apart from parents *as well as* the parents themselves? While a SAHM can be an exemplary role model to her children and others based on what *she* does, other role models are *also* necessary to model *other* choices and life paths. Hopefully a SAHM will have WOHM friends who are involved in her and her children's lives to the extent that they can easily see wonderful role models in *many* fields where a young woman might find herself or find interest in. And last, but certainly not least- as far as a father as role model for WOH, IMO it's important to teach children that parenthood is a dual partnership. While certainly there are successful single parents, it's undeniable that it's alot harder when one is both sole breadwinner *and* only parent. IMO when children see their parents working *together* to get things done and create a functional, happy and healthy home life, *that* is the important lesson. That both WOH full time or that Mom (as opposed to Dad) SAH, or *whatever* configuration people have, so long as there *is* a living wage being generated, that teaches children the value of work. I learned my WOH work ethic from *my* father (my Mom was a SAHM and I learned a wonderful work ethic from her as well) but certainly my father taught me how to succeed in the workforce outside the home should I ever need/want to do so/ do so again. I see no reason why such lessons can't cross gender lines.

IMO it does *everyone* a disservice, *especially* women, to limit their choices. Making parenting a valueless choice or something that is looked down on in favor of earning a paycheck does nothing for feminism. In fact, it gets us right back where we started- same limitations, albeit a different situation being forced onto women...

Wytchy

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