WOH/Kids/Feminism: WDYT?

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-29-2004
WOH/Kids/Feminism: WDYT?
1456
Tue, 02-08-2005 - 9:06am

Okay, let's debate something else. One morning a few months ago, I was crabby to DH about having to get ready for work. DH said, "Well, if you don't want to go to work, quit!"

Later that day, I told him I was just venting, and then I told him some of the reasons I really do like WOH. One reason was something to the effect that I wanted to WOH as part of at-home feminism for our DD's. He said he had no idea what I was talking about.

I thought about it some and decided that although this is a heartfelt idea for me, it's still fuzzy. I suppose I meant that I want to show my DDs how to live independently of a man, in the sense of income, ability to make one's way in the world, and so on, even if they choose marriage & kids. My feelings of pride in my own mom, who was a WOH mom, come into it, too.

Caution: I don't mean in any way to suggest anything the least bit negative about SAH moms. That's not what this is about. Nor do I mean to suggest that anyone has to WOH to teach their kids feminist or gender neutral values. That's not what this is about, either.

Do you think there's any value in WOH as part of raising kids? Please help me clarify my thinking.

Sabina

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 02-14-2005 - 8:46am

In extreme cold environments you put block heaters on your engines. It makes it easier to start and also prevents it from being cracked when you start the car because of the extreme temperature difference. You plug it into a normal outlet over night (or whenever the car will be sitting for an extended time). They are especially needed if you do not have a garage. It is fairly common to see outlet poles in parking lots of apartment buildings, college dorms, military dorms etc so the residents can plug in. Usually those that live in houses and do not have garages run an extention cord from their house.

(That what you learn by living in North Dakota for three years).

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-04-2004
Mon, 02-14-2005 - 8:59am

***You know it can be achieved in a sub-ideal school with parental or other outside supplementation?***

Yes, actually, I do.

***How often do those 3 things actually come together and success is achieved?***

Whenever the parent and child are motivated enough to make it work.

***Not to mention how often do those 3 things come together and a child in a sub-ideal school is not outcast due to those conditions?***

How do you mean?

***Or if these 3 things were coming together on a regular basis..the school would not be sub-ideal school any longer.***

Sure it would. Just because some parents decide to undertake more involvement and responsibility in their child's education doesn't affect the quality of the school. Not unless it were a widespread phenomenon at any rate, but that isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about how individual parents can improve their child's education in less than ideal surroundings.

***However, since many school districts are still sub-ideal I would think not vary...as success stories are few and far between.***

IMO that's because frequently parents think that public/private school is the be-all/end-all of education and that since the school supposedly has it covered that they needn't do much beyond helping with homework.

***Even in our average school less than 25% of the kids who graduate go on to higher education, simply by the fact a great education is not encouraged or even appreciated by the majority.***

We aren't talking about the majority- we are talking about parents who want to and are motivated to provide their children with a good education despite being in a less than ideal public school environment.

***A college degree is important, but more important...no, its one of the final steps of a 12+ year process.***

Final step yes, but one can attend a crappy high school, make a good score on the SAT/ACT and attend a great college. The more important factor is the college, not the high school. Employers are going to care far more about what college one attended and what they did *there* than they are what went on in high school or where that happened to be located.

***I believe love of learning and the importance of an education and teaching begins at birth.***

I absolutely agree.

***However in order to get into college...you have to have the test scores through act/sat and grades from highschool in order to get past the front doors.***

If one is homeschooled, highschool grades are irrelevant. But let's assume that one is public schooled and supplemented with a motivated parent at home- despite a so-so education in the public school, a parents involvement can boost a child's education well above even the "good" public school level so that those test scores are obtained. As SAT/ACT test scores are not based on high school quality or grades, but rather on individual test performance, this is very feasible.

***How exactly is one going to get into college with a sub/ideal education, let alone pay for it?***

Here is where I think you aren't understanding my point. Ones public school may be sub-ideal, but with active parental involvement (part-time homeschooling as it were) ones education *would* be made ideal. You seem to be stuck on the sub-ideal school being the be-all-end-all of a students education.

***I never said it had to be an ideal school environment either....but a good/great one.***

And I disagree. I know from experience that a good-great education can be had in far less than good-great public schools.

***Why on earth would I settle for something that is sub-ideal to use your words, for my children?***

The whole point of the discussion is that one *wouldn't* settle for a sub-ideal education, which is *why* I am citing the options of parental involvement and outside resources. Put it this way- if one wants to provide their children with a sahp or anything else for that matter, (say college savings as opposed to living in that great school location) then one doesn't have to just leave the public schools to do all the work. One can take some responsibility for their childrens education and improve the quality of their education exponentially.

***That's great for you....but neither my dh or myself are teachers or are knowledgeable about all subjects in order to teach our children in the manner we wish them to be taught. We both have our passions in some subjects but not all...we wanted them to be taught by people who are gifted at both teaching and that passion.***

I'm certainly not saying that homeschooling is for everyone- it's one option of many that permits parents to provide their children with a great education. One needn't be a teacher or be knowledgeable in all subjects in order to teach ones children in the manner that one wishes them to be taught. My point is that *for us*, providing a great education for our children goes beyond *any* public school. We feel that we can do a better job than any public school so the quality of our school system is irrelevant. However, that means that, for us, having a parent at home to provide the quality of education that *we* wish for *our* children is a necessity to that end.

***That's of course if their are libraries there and you are assuming that they have more resources?***

If one is making the choice between locations, one would be able to scope out things such as those local resources. And as libraries have a thing called interlibrary loans, resources can be obtained from elsewhere.

***Big assumption as funds are being cut all the time, especially since the schools don't have the funds...why would you think the libraries do? I live in an relatively good sized midwest city and public transportation is a huge joke...not to mention I wouldn't let my children use public transportation in an urban area by themselves for quite a few more years. If the schools are less than ideal, than why would you think the libraries wouldn't be as well?***

You're assuming that parents are incapable of escorting their children to the library or incapable of using libraries out of town. Big assumption. Also- if one is making the choice to change location, one would be able to scope out what resources are available locally. If one can choose a location with a good-great public school, why couldn't one also choose one with a so-so public school but access to other local resources? We aren't talking here of people just waking up one day and saying "Gee, I live in a crappy school district but I don't think I can do anything about it" ;)

***How exactly would they find these out? I am pretty knowledgeable on a lot of things in my city and outside of the homeschooling network....the only local education groups are for gifted children and cost money.***

The internet, word of mouth, libraries, book clubs, parent groups, local colleges... One can start their *own*... There are *lots* of ways to find resources if one is willing to seek them out and is a bit creative ;)

***Key word is motivated....both on the parents and children's parts. The children would have to get past the social stigma of being the smart kid.***

Whether you realize it or not, that stigma exists in both sub-par and "good/great" schools. And often there is little difference between the two as far as that's concerned. Unless we're talking *really* bad schools, (which I haven't been). I'm talking the difference between a so-so school and a good/great one. Remember my posts about being willing to downsize but not being willing to move our family to the ghetto? ;)

***So you are going to settle for less than ideal? How does that differ from the less than ideal public school?***

Do you drive a brand new car with all of the latest safety features? Side impact air bags etc.? If a good workhorse is doing the job, and the benefit of the lower cost outweighs the benefit of the better quality, why use financial resources unnecessarily?

***What about ap classes? You will be able to teach advance level classes in english, math, science, literature, foreign language, art and others?***

Can I personally teach them? Not all, but I have the knowledge, creativity, network and resources to be sure they are provided, and at a level superior to what I feel they would receive in the public school system.

***Computer labs at the library or under $200? I can see that for your basic work and excel...but what about the higher end stuff that many many middle and highschools are doing?***

Computer labs at home, on a computer that can be built for under $200. My DH is a computer geek, remember? Of course, we already have alot of the software, but there are options there as well.

***Oh...so not true. People homeschool for many reasons and usually the reason is a good education I hope, but there are other reasons as well that I have heard on this board numerous times.***

Oh yes- I forgot about the religious zealots. My mistake. ;)

***Why? Its much easier to go with the flow than swim against the tide.***

Since when is easy "better"? ;) In my experience, the easy way is often *not* the best way to go...

***You are capable of not only learning higher end subjects without a teacher but then turning around and teaching your children as well? You will be able to teach yourself say...calculus and then turn around and teach it to your child?***

With many things, yes. With others outside resources will be necessary. (I'm very much math-impaired, but I already have resources and plans in place for providing that level of education.)

***I just think for us, not being teachers or even having teaching experience, my kids wouldn't end up with the great education that we want for them...we would be back to settling for average, simply because dh and I aren't educated or passionate about all subjects. Our kids would learn history, math and art...not very well rounded, LoL.***

Like I said before, I'm not suggesting this is for everyone ;) I'm just putting it up as one option for providing a great education in a less than ideal public school district. ;)

***They can and do. We have a couple of homeschool families that do scouts and sports with my kids and have for a few years....they also attend church with some of the families as well. I also see how upset those kids get when they aren't included in many of the school activities before, during and after school.***

In many areas, homeschoolers have every right to attend those activities based on the fact that their parents still pay property taxes and as such have the right to use the school facilities as much or as little as they choose. Some homeschoolers attend public school for one or two subjects and are homeschooled in the rest, others attend for band, sports etc. Those rights may certainly differ by state, especially where schools aren't paid for via property taxes, but that's the case around here.

***As children who attend school outside of the home, one enjoys social interactions with those of *all* ages....your point? My kids don't attend a school that is only one grade, nor do they restrict interaction between the grades.***

So your kids are in classes with students of all ages? I'm not talking about a minute here or there in the hallways or before/after school... In any public school I've seen, classes are seperated by grade, meaning that like-aged students are kept together.

***I'm really not sure how these are related...***

You said "not just at home".

***Yes, and it also doesn't mean that one is capable of going....either.***

Part of the responsibility for education is with the parents- providing it however they are able and find acceptable/ideal for their situation. Part of the responsibility *also* lies with the student. Whether a student attends a great school or not doesn't mean they will be qualified to attend college. If they aren't doing *their* part to learn, no amount of resources or great quality teachers/books etc. is going to do it *for* them.

***No..its about the need...the need of a child.....a child NEEDS a good education.***

Then you're having a different discussion than I am. That's part of it certainly, but we've progressed into how/where/etc.

***Tangent? Maybe, maybe not....the first step of education is the need...the parents have to think its a need...need to do what ever they can to put their child in the position of obtaining that need...IMO.***

You are stuck on whether or not parents assume that it's a need- I've moved on to assuming that they're well aware that it *is*.

<>

***I love this, LOL....just in case it hasn't sunk in to you yet....a good education in a good school is a need in my book....remember you can only judge YOUR needs....not mine. LOL...like you are the judge of what is a need and what is a want....thanks ever so much for the chuckle.***

So you're saying that if you were in the position that all you could afford were a home in a less desireable school district, or for whatever reason you were unable to have your children in a good public or private school you would be incapable of providing your child with a good education? If so then yes- it's absolutely necessary for you. If not, then no- it's not. I guess it's an American trait to be confused over want/need. *shrugs* Having seen what can be done when people are forced to live without what they perceive to be "needs", well, let's just say one gets a better idea of what *is* and *isn't* a *need*... ;)

Wytchy

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Mon, 02-14-2005 - 8:59am
I find it easy to spend that much. We eat VERY well. I love to cook and make healthy, extravagent meals for my family. I also cook for friends fairly regularly too. I am on a committee that takes food into families that have had illnesses or hospitalizations, new babies, etc. That also factors into our budget.:-)~Lisa
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 02-14-2005 - 9:00am
Does that include meat? Household goods (dishwasher soap, paper towels)? How much is milk there?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 02-14-2005 - 9:01am
I spent $166.31 yesterday for my weekly grocery store trip.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 02-14-2005 - 9:02am
Get back to me when we're both retired.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-04-2004
Mon, 02-14-2005 - 9:02am

You're right, I am talking month- my mistake. LOL! I was distracted and just glancing at numbers in my pricebook, not the duration/frequency of the shopping.

Wytchy

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 02-14-2005 - 9:11am

Well then let me introduce myself.

Photobucket
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2000
Mon, 02-14-2005 - 9:12am
That's one thing I hate about living in MD.
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-04-2004
Mon, 02-14-2005 - 9:12am

***I'm not trying to twist your posts into that having a sahp is a need....just having a hard time understanding why you advocate a move to a low col to fulfill a want? Didn't you say something about making it a priority?***

What I've said, if you go back and read rather than grabbing onto one word in the post, is that *if* one has a sahp as their higher priority..... NOT that that is a "better" priority, or that I am advocating that everyone should *make* it a priority. People make their choices in life based on what is a priority *for them*. If it is a priority for you- great. If it isn't- great. So long as what you're doing is working for you, that's all that matters. The original discussion was that a widow with a 37,000/yr income and a 350,000 insurance payout couldn't possibly be able to make it financially. Somehow we've gotten here from there.

***I don't recall them being discussed, except for of course with your planning that would never happen....so I don't really see that your mind is open to this discussion...do you?***

What I see is that you're either not reading or reading more into things than I've posted. I've never said that we've planned for my husband never to die ;) (Although I like to hope that he won't anytime soon! LOL!) What I've said is that we have planned for that event and through our planning, we have enough should he die that I can pay off the house and make ends meet until I can obtain a liveable income in our location. We also have plans for the event of unemployment, decrease in salary etc. but given DH's situation, that is highly unlikely thankfully. As for divorce, well, even though we've been married 7+years and have two kids, we're still "honeymooning newleyweds" so you'll have to forgive our idealistic vice in not seeing that as a possibility. But then, we know ourselves and each other and you don't- so... ;) *shrugs* As I said- if you have other hypothetical possibilities to throw out- by all means please do so. I've already discussed our plans as far as the aforementioned- what else is there that you're thinking of and I'm not? The downfall of society in general? Technology becoming obsolete? .....? Give me a hypothetical and we'll see what we can do with it ;)

Wytchy

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