Would you have had kids if you couldn't

Avatar for cindytree
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
Would you have had kids if you couldn't
1589
Wed, 09-03-2003 - 3:31pm
Would you still have had children if you knew you might not be able to pay for their college education? I'm not talking about providing food and shelter and needs of minor children and paying bills in general. Just about paying their way through college.

I guess I'm still astounded at the attitude that surfaced at another thread implying that if they couldn't pay for college, they wouldn't have had children. Of course, I'm a lazy, selfish mom at home who isn't working while some of my kids are in school so maybe my opinion doesn't count. Maybe I SHOULD take up scrapbooking to make my existence more worthwhile! lol

In any case, it is an interesting question considering that, under that reasoning, Oprah Winfrey shouldn't have been born. Give me time and I can come up with a whole list of highly successful and respected people who have impacted us in positive ways that wouldn't have been born had their parents decided that because they couldn't pay for college, they wouldn't have children.

How has the college issue influenced your decision to have children, if at all? Do you think it is an important criteria in the decision?

Cindy

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Avatar for virgogirl914
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Mon, 09-15-2003 - 1:44pm
What message do you propose I send to my children?

"Do as I say and not as I did or I'll throw a temper tantrum."

"Your father and I are a fluke. . .you'll never be as lucky as we are" (negating the very real WORK we put into our marriage surviving. . .it's been nothing remotely related to luck that's kept us together.

So sue me. . .you view it as complacent. . I view it as being honest with myself and my children. My children are not encouraged to marry young. We have discussed the advantages and disadvantages we faced in marrying young. My children have witnessed (my oldest specifically) some of the challenges we have faced and overcome. We have been honest that every marriage comes with challenges and we have faced special challenges as a couple who married young AND as a military family. We have discussed the very real and daily work their father and I have put into making our marriage work.

Maybe if more parents took that approach, marriage itself (much less young marriages) wouldn't face such failure rates.

Avatar for virgogirl914
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Mon, 09-15-2003 - 1:49pm
And could you tell me what 'more' it is (exactly) that I'm supposed to want for my children?

I have 3 happy, healthy children.

I have a husband who adores me and took the effort to ask a colonel for special permission to call me yesterday on my birthday. He's NEVER forgotten a birthday or anniversary. He also held me as I buried my father and as we lost a child.

I have a career in a field I am truly passionate about.

I am financially stable. . . .not extravagently so, but we do 'just fine'.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Mon, 09-15-2003 - 2:02pm
Believe it or not, I talk to my children too. We discuss the importance of being ready to be a parent before you become one-that means financially and emotionally. We talk about making sure you have some life experience before you make the big commitment of marriage, because there IS a very high divorce rate out there. We talk about giving yourself a chance to get an education, which opens up many doors, and being able to HAVE a choice. No, we dont discuss any *pros and cons* to marrying early, because imo, there ARENT any *pros*!

Its probably hard not to, but you are taking this way too personally and thinking that your own marriage is being looked down on, which isnt the case. You are one of the lucky ones who married young and made it. No one is faulting you for that. But you cannot in all honesty really feel that you would want that same struggle for YOUR children, would you??? I just cant buy the argument of *well it worked out for us, why wouldnt it work out for them*.

What *more* could you want for your children? A chance to be a teen? To be footloose for awhile and learn about life, about who they are and what they want? Live on their own and learn to support and take care of themselves before bringing a child into the mix? Travel, get an education?

This isnt about your personal decisions, its about the theory of an 18yo getting married and starting a family before they have gotten any kind of life.

dj

Dj

"Now when I need help, I look in the mirror" ~Kanye West~

Avatar for virgogirl914
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Mon, 09-15-2003 - 3:33pm
You may not see them as pros, but I do see having my children young as an advantage. . .FOR ME. I am young enough to keep up with them. . . .and will be young enough to keep up with their children during some very active activities.

Do I WANT my children to struggle, no not necessarily, but I also realize that it is a necessary part of learning. They will struggle in life, it's just a matter of WHICH struggles will they face.

While I don't advocate that they SHOULD marry young, if they choose to do so I won't necessarily think they haven't gotten 'more' out of life, especially not in terms of your suggested list of 'things I should want for my children'

"A chance to be a teen?" Um, they had that. . .it's called adolescence. You and I just disagree on when it's time to 'grow up'. . .

"To be footloose for awhile and learn about life, about who they are and what they want?" Again, that's what the teen years are for. . .if for someone that footloose approach spills into their 20's that's okay. . .but I don't think it's necessary to proper development.

"Live on their own and learn to support and take care of themselves before bringing a child into the mix?" I am in some agreement with you on this one. . .though I don't think one has to 'live alone' as much as I think it's healthy to get some experience out from under mom & dad's roof before having children. I don't think it's necessary to have an apartment by one's self before marriage. . .

"Travel, get an education?" You can still do those things and marry early IF that is what you want. . .if you marry early and don't get an education that isn't a direct result of marrying early as much as it is a result of your own LACK of motivation to get an education.

And yes, it's hard NOT to take things a bit personally when I've been called a statuatory rapist, and basically told my marriage was wrong and that I was stupid to marry early.

Avatar for tickmich
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 09-15-2003 - 3:37pm
What you said!
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Mon, 09-15-2003 - 3:49pm
Sorry I must have missed where I called you any of those things.

And I will tell you this, having children young doesnt make you any more adept at *keeping up with them*. I'm 38 and in extremely good physical condition. Most of the time my kids are trying to keep up with me. My parents are both nearing 60, dont look it or act it, and are both in very good condition. Thats a rather silly argument for having children young.

And sure, you can get an education and travel if you marry and have children young. But its a LOT harder to do.

And why do people assume that the teen years end at 18? I'd think with your own experience in child development, you'd know that those teen years dont really end until the early 20's.

dj

Dj

"Now when I need help, I look in the mirror" ~Kanye West~

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 09-15-2003 - 3:50pm
<>

Nothing, asusming the young girl lives in a world where she was out of school by, say, 12-15yrs of age, had a few years of practice out in the world supporting AT LEAST HERSELF before she had the baby. And of course where she had absolutely no real chance of any measurable lifestyle improvements in terms of stability to be gained, for her or her future offspring to be gained by doing ANYTHING ELSE.

<>

If a young girl is responsible, why would she bring a baby into the world before she had even proven to herself, let alone anyone else that she could actually support herself? Especially in a world with a 50% divorce rate. I mean it makes no sense for a young girl to go spouting her devotion to the concept of marriage. Fact is. She is only half the marriage. A quick interview of divoved couples should make it pretty clear just to what extent divorce is not necessarilly a joint descion, in terms of either timing or acceptance of the concept. I'm fairly sure "I'm divorced" and "I never thought this would happen to me!" and "How could he/she do this to me!" are statements that go hand in hand for at least ONE half of, oh, I'd say, 90% of divorces.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 09-15-2003 - 3:58pm
Oh for heavens sake. I can look back on myself at 30 and say exactly the same thing. Its NOT the point. 18 yr old minds are mature enough. They are a good half decade older than nature made them at the point nature decided the associated body could become a parent. When does it end. Enough. They ARE adults. The whole if-I'd-known-then-what-I-know-now thing is not going away at some magic age. I'm sure someday I'll be able to look back at at my 35, 40, 45, 50, 55 etc whatever yr old me and wonder how I survived day to day with such lack of experience. The fact is, in our world, the 18 yr old has not usually developed the means to self sufficiency, let alone 18 yr old means to support offspring, which is anything LIKE mature.
Avatar for virgogirl914
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Mon, 09-15-2003 - 4:04pm
I didn't say YOU said those things, but another poster has. . .

And you may be in great physical condition. . .that's wonderful that you are. . .I'm not trying to argue that one should have children young INSTEAD of at an older age, but that it is simply a valid choice. . .legal and valid.

Looking specifically at the work of Erik Erikson, he identified the adolescent years (he didn't give specific ages) as the years in which we come to terms with our identity (vs. identity diffusion) and the young adult years (again, no specific ages) as the years where we address intimacy vs. isolation issues.

I don't see anywhere that I've argued contrary to Dr. Erikson. . .and as a developmental-maturational educator, yes, I do believe there is great merit to his work.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-21-2003
Mon, 09-15-2003 - 4:12pm
Oh brother, someone is taking psych classes.

Yes, I said that a 20 year woman old allowing a 17 year old boy to move in and sleep with them is considered statutory rape in many states, and just plain stupid in most other places.

If it were MY 17 year old I probably would have called you much worse, but I'm looking at it from a mothers perspective.

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