Education and politics

Avatar for jamblessedthree
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Registered: 10-23-2001
Education and politics
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Thu, 12-05-2013 - 7:45am

http://dianeravitch.net/2013/12/03/my-view-of-the-pisa-scores/

I always find it interesting the continued attention to other countries the United States compares itself to, Perhaps that's the root of the problem after all.  This author makes a lot of outstanding points. 

Thoughts? 

 

 

 

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Avatar for jamblessedthree
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Registered: 10-23-2001
Fri, 12-06-2013 - 8:07am

bordwithyou wrote:
<p>The cartoon isn't a joke. It's social commentary. Just like the Mandela quotation.</p>

Please remind me, humanity educators are on your husband's side of the family, right?  

 

 

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Registered: 01-08-2009
Fri, 12-06-2013 - 8:07am
Standardized test score have been shown, over and over again, to be only a weak indicator/predictor of academic success, much less any other kind of success in life.
Avatar for savcal2011
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Registered: 10-06-2010
Fri, 12-06-2013 - 8:08am

jamblessedthree wrote:
<p><blockquote class="quote-msg quote-nest-1 odd"><div class="quote-author"><em class="placeholder">bordwithyou</em> wrote:</div>So you think poverty is done kind of "excuse" that people offer, Jamblessed? Is that it?</blockquote></p><p>It's an attitude, yes<span>.  I come from an educated home but very different in the sense that we never placed ourselves above single parent homes or homes that had less, And that was learned.   That's probably why my father never lived according to hard numbers or statistics either, the guy even taught the course but he was intelligent enough to know that real lives aren't dictated by that.  </span></p>

It's an attitude? Do you mean that if people would just change their attitude they wouldn't be poor anymore? Who knew it was that simple?

"I don’t mind a banshee, that’s fine. 2 banshees? I HATE you. I actually wish bad things upon you." -- Day[9] Daily #459 P1

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Registered: 01-08-2009
Fri, 12-06-2013 - 8:10am
What are " humanity educators?"
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Registered: 09-01-2002
Fri, 12-06-2013 - 8:49am

bordwithyou wrote:
Standardized test score have been shown, over and over again, to be only a weak indicator/predictor of academic success, much less any other kind of success in life.

I hear this over and over.  But I have to say, I've known people who've taken standardized tests (myself included) and their scores were both an accurate reading of their intelligence at the moment and a good predictor of success in school.  Maybe not in life, as you say.  My kids over the years (soo many standardized tests).  Me, my family, friends....

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Registered: 09-01-2002
Fri, 12-06-2013 - 8:50am

bordwithyou wrote:
What are " humanity educators?"

I just assume she's meaning the humanities.  Isn't that an apt description?

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Registered: 01-08-2009
Fri, 12-06-2013 - 8:53am

thardy2001 wrote:
<p><blockquote class="quote-msg quote-nest-1 odd"><div class="quote-author"><em class="placeholder">bordwithyou</em> wrote:</div>What are " humanity educators?"</blockquote></p><p>I just assume she's meaning the humanities.  Isn't that an apt description?</p>

No, the way that "humanity" modifies "educators," it seems to mean "educators of humanity," or something, with humanity serving as an adjective; like "early-childhood educator."  My husband's a great scholar and great teacher, but "humanity educator" seems like a rather grandiose title, even for him.

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Registered: 01-08-2009
Fri, 12-06-2013 - 8:58am

thardy2001 wrote:
<p><blockquote class="quote-msg quote-nest-1 odd"><div class="quote-author"><em class="placeholder">bordwithyou</em> wrote:</div>Standardized test score have been shown, over and over again, to be only a weak indicator/predictor of academic success, much less any other kind of success in life.</blockquote></p><p>I hear this over and over.  But I have to say, I've known people who've taken standardized tests (myself included) and their scores were both an accurate reading of their intelligence at the moment and a good predictor of success in school.  Maybe not <span style="text-decoration:underline">in life,</span> as you say.  My kids over the years (soo many standardized tests).  Me, my family, friends....</p>

The plural of "anecdote" is not data, as I am sure that you are aware.  Obviously someone who is really good at standardized tests is not stupid, and having a test score for both benchmark and comparative purposes as one piece of data is really nice in admissions decisions, I admit.  But for college/grad school success, the strongest indicator of success is the previous academic record.  Students who do really well in school up until college/grad school tend to continue doing well.   And they are not necessarily the smartest, most creative students, either.  They are people who are good at school.

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Registered: 09-01-2002
Fri, 12-06-2013 - 9:09am

bordwithyou wrote:
  The plural of "anecdote" is not data, as I am sure that you are aware.  Obviously someone who is really good at standardized tests is not stupid, and having a test score for both benchmark and comparative purposes as one piece of data is really nice in admissions decisions, I admit.  But for college/grad school success, the strongest indicator of success is the previous academic record.  Students who do really well in school up until college/grad school tend to continue doing well.   And they are not necessarily the smartest, most creative students, either.  They are people who are good at school.</p>

There certainly are.  Maybe they are the only ones who should pursue college and grad schools.  But I'm also thinking about elementary, middle school ~ a lot of those standardized tests are accurate predictors, and we can't call children that age "good at school" just yet.  I think that happens later ~ finding out what a teacher wants on a paper, what will be on a test, etc.

If standardized tests are just not informative, then we couldn't use them for special education.  What then?  I would certainly not want a child's special education needs treated without any testing. 

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Registered: 01-08-2009
Fri, 12-06-2013 - 9:16am

thardy2001 wrote:
<p><blockquote class="quote-msg quote-nest-1 odd"><div class="quote-author"><em class="placeholder">bordwithyou</em> wrote:</div>  The plural of "anecdote" is not data, as I am sure that you are aware.  Obviously someone who is really good at standardized tests is not stupid, and having a test score for both benchmark and comparative purposes as one piece of data is really nice in admissions decisions, I admit.  But for college/grad school success, the strongest indicator of success is the previous academic record.  Students who do really well in school up until college/grad school tend to continue doing well.   And they are not necessarily the smartest, most creative students, either. <strong> They are people who are good at school.</strong>&lt;/p&gt;</blockquote></p><p>There certainly are.  Maybe they are the only ones who should pursue college and grad schools.  But I'm also thinking about elementary, middle school ~ a lot of those standardized tests are accurate predictors, and we can't call children that age "good at school" just yet.  I think that happens later ~ finding out what a teacher wants on a paper, what will be on a test, etc.</p><p>If standardized tests are just not informative, then we couldn't use them for special education.  What then?  I would certainly not want a child's special education needs treated without any testing.  </p>

Well, obviously testing -- and I hope a lot of testing -- is going to be used to diagnose a special education student.   I've got one myself, and we spent almost two years getting an accurate diagnosis and plan, which involved, as you say, a lot of test instruments. I am not against testing when there is a good reason for it, and the results are used appropriately.  When politics get involved, tests tend to be used stupidly, and unnecessarily, and punitively. 

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