Education and politics

Avatar for jamblessedthree
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Registered: 10-23-2001
Education and politics
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Thu, 12-05-2013 - 7:45am

http://dianeravitch.net/2013/12/03/my-view-of-the-pisa-scores/

I always find it interesting the continued attention to other countries the United States compares itself to, Perhaps that's the root of the problem after all.  This author makes a lot of outstanding points. 

Thoughts? 

 

 

 

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iVillage Member
Registered: 05-13-2009
Sun, 12-08-2013 - 11:13am

bordwithyou wrote:
It is very difficult to discuss these issues with you, Jambles, since you are dismissive of facts and statistics. It is as if you are locked into a worldview that sees poverty as a personal failing, and nothing In the realm of evidence to the contrary can change your mind.

Jams seems to buy into the current Tea Party philosophy glorifying the rich as virtuous and blaming the poor for their own problems. If the poor were virtuous, so the argument goes, they'd be rich, too, bootstraps and all. This narrative fits hand in glove with the notion that taxes on the virtuous job creators can never be increased, and government spending on the poor is wasteful -- or even harmful, because it takes away their incentive to be "virtuous."

That's why I love Pope Francis, the rich are not virtuous and poverty in not a moral failing:


“How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses two points? This is a case of exclusion. Can we continue to stand by when food is thrown away while people are starving? This is a case of inequality. Today everything comes under the laws of competition and the survival of the fittest, where the powerful feed upon the powerless. As a consequence, masses of people find themselves excluded and marginalized: without work, without possibilities, without any means of escape.”

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/apost_exhortations/documents/papa-francesco_esortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium_en.html

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Registered: 05-31-2011
Sun, 12-08-2013 - 11:56am

bordwithyou wrote:
It is very difficult to discuss these issues with you, Jambles, since you are dismissive of facts and statistics. It is as if you are locked into a worldview that sees poverty as a personal failing, and nothing In the realm of evidence to the contrary can change your mind.

I find Jams difficult to have a discussion with because she won't clarify anything that she's said, even when asked by multiple people. She'd rather throw out cryptic one-liners and pretend that she's debating something. 

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Registered: 05-31-2011
Sun, 12-08-2013 - 11:58am

Chestnut--I'm beginning to love Pope Francis too. My brother is a liberal Catholic and he was excited to report to me that the pope's recent writing could have penned by Rachel Maddow :)

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Registered: 06-27-1998
Sun, 12-08-2013 - 3:58pm

jamblessedthree wrote:
<p><blockquote class="quote-msg quote-nest-1 odd"><div class="quote-author"><em class="placeholder">rollmops2009</em> wrote:</div>Jams, investing in kids is not telling parents how to raise them. Investing in kids would be things like providing health care through schools, making pre-K universal, making high-quality daycare available and affordable etc.</blockquote></p><p>You've completely disregarded what I said, the only accomodations some poor kids get are n the schools that service them.  </p><p>Universal and mandatory prek is on the horizon and I see that actually happening in the not so far future, health care clinics are free to children (and their famlies that qualify), these sites (in the schools) exist.  Insofar as quality daycare, its a toss up of what that even means, even daycares in the most affluent areas have high staff turnaround and questionable conditons.  </p><p>I'm sure there are more cites that support what you want them to support but until you see it and work in it up front do you know the suffering and the tolls kids have had to take on.  Moms and dads need to be coached or these kids taken away from them for good too.  </p>

Taken away from the parents to where Jams, for being poor?  

PumpkinAngel

Avatar for jamblessedthree
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Registered: 10-23-2001
Sun, 12-08-2013 - 4:29pm

chestnuthooligan wrote:
<p><blockquote class="quote-msg quote-nest-1 odd"><div class="quote-author"><em class="placeholder">bordwithyou</em> wrote:</div>It is very difficult to discuss these issues with you, Jambles, since you are dismissive of facts and statistics. It is as if you are locked into a worldview that sees poverty as a personal failing, and nothing In the realm of evidence to the contrary can change your mind.</blockquote></p><p><span>Jams seems to buy into the current Tea Party philosophy glorifying the rich as virtuous and blaming the poor for their own problems. If the poor were virtuous, so the argument goes, they'd be rich, too, bootstraps and all. This narrative fits hand in glove with the notion that taxes on the virtuous job creators can never be increased, and government spending on the poor is wasteful -- or even harmful, because it takes away their incentive to be "virtuous." <br /></span></p><p><span>That's why I love Pope Francis, the rich are not virtuous and poverty in not a moral failing:</span></p><p><br />“How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses two points? This is a case of exclusion. Can we continue to stand by when food is thrown away while people are starving? This is a case of inequality. Today everything comes under the laws of competition and the survival of the fittest, where the powerful feed upon the powerless. As a consequence, masses of people find themselves excluded and marginalized: without work, without possibilities, without any means of escape.”</p><p>http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/apost_exhortations/documents/papa-francesco_esortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium_en.html</p>

Right, and Pope Francis is no hypocrite.  What you've written in this thread is. 

 

 

Avatar for savcal2011
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Registered: 10-06-2010
Sun, 12-08-2013 - 4:42pm

jamblessedthree wrote:
Right, and Pope Francis is no hypocrite.  What you've written in this thread is. </p>

Can you provide an example of what you think chesnut has written that is hypocritical?

"I don’t mind a banshee, that’s fine. 2 banshees? I HATE you. I actually wish bad things upon you." -- Day[9] Daily #459 P1

Avatar for jamblessedthree
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Registered: 10-23-2001
Sun, 12-08-2013 - 5:01pm

You'd need to know Pope Francis savcal, He still hasn't moved into the papal residence, he lives and practices among the poor and the sick, He would never place himself above those most vulnerable.  Chestnut has shown otherwise.  That is nice she loves the man, a lot of people do and that's a wonderful thing.  

 


 


iVillage Member
Registered: 05-31-2011
Sun, 12-08-2013 - 5:02pm

savcal2011 wrote:
Can you provide an example of what you think chesnut has written that is hypocritical?

Are you down for a small gamble, Sav? I have $5 that says she won't bother to answer or clarify her statement in any way. 

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-13-2009
Sun, 12-08-2013 - 5:35pm

What hypocrisy? I believe that poverty is not a "home problem", but a societal problem caused in part by "unfettered capitalism". I agree with the Pope, you apparently, do not.

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Registered: 05-13-2009
Sun, 12-08-2013 - 6:13pm

jamblessedthree wrote:
<p>You'd need to know Pope Francis savcal, He still hasn't moved into the papal residence, he lives and practices among the poor and the sick, He would never place himself above those most vulnerable.  Chestnut has shown otherwise.  That is nice she loves the man, a lot of people do and that's a wonderful thing.  </p>

What have I've shown otherwise? Examples, please. I am not perfect, but I have never slammed the poor and most vulnerable, except possibly when I engage with poorly equipped debaters. 

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