Toddler discipline

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-15-2003
Toddler discipline
881
Fri, 10-29-2004 - 9:18am
Okay. Let me start off by saying that I swatted Aspen on the behind yesterday and I am none too happy about it.

I was NOT going to be a parent who spanked...and then this horrible toddler-itis reared it's ugly head and I just don't know what to do! I am looking for advice, anything that *works*.

Scenario: Aspen's been kicking me during diaper changes since before Vivi was born. She's too big for the changing table, so changes take place on the floor or the bed and she is always kicking all over the place. So, for months, I've been working with the firm "NO!" and holding her legs still. That worked for a little while. Then, it was "No, you are hurting mommy." That never seemed to get through. So, yesterday, I told her, "Stop kicking or I'm going to spank your bottom." and she wouldn't stop so I swatted her one. She cried and I felt nothing but a rush of confusion...."What am I doing? She's just going to learn to hit! I am awful!" And on and on.

I seriously cannot think of anything else to do! It's not the kicking itself that's a major problem...it's that she is willfully, knowingly, still kicking when told not to. I know she is just asserting herself, but she needs to learn to listen, right? I can't put her in "timeout" (because where would I put her? In her crib? Do I want her to associate the crib with punishment?) I can't take away a toy because the value/association is not there yet.

Need advice! I am SUCH a newbie! Dh and I are both like, "What do we do?" We don't know! Oh, life was a lot easier for my parents! Just spank 'em and be done...none of this all-consuming self-doubt.

Meldi

Meldi

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: meldi
Wed, 11-03-2004 - 3:09pm
I did it during the school year.

You know what. I just might have passed on your messy dh. I had a husband and sister and a father and a mother and two roomates and a room full of dormmates and several almost co-habitating boyfriends before I tripped over my husband. He's not the housekeeper I am. However. Neither is anyone else. Even my neat as pins mom doesn't do neat my way and we still irriate each other with housekeeping priorities. A roomate, a father and a sister on the disaster end of the spectrum taught me alot about what I would have to deal with if I picked one of those for a husband.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: meldi
Wed, 11-03-2004 - 3:15pm
We have a similar setup. My kids have to be in bed around a set time, but if they want to read or listen to a CD or the radio they are permitted to do so. They usually fall asleep when they are tired. Sometimes it's 9PM, sometimes 10PM. But they learn to self regulate, not needing me to tell them when to sleep and when to stay up.

Jenna

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-29-2004
In reply to: meldi
Wed, 11-03-2004 - 3:16pm
But since you were lucky enough to have a child who slept thru at 4 months, didn't you want that for your other children? (Or, since he came after the son PNJ was discussing, when you heard about so many babies sleeping thru the night early on without waking to feed or simply latch on, didn't you ever wish your other children could simply do the same?)

For me, I wanted what seemed to be typical - children who sleep through the night at 5/6 months without waking to breastfeed. Obviously, a lot of children sleep thru the night much, much earlier too. It was a problem to be solved. I solved it with Ferber, and I don't think you have the stomach for that. But, I admit I wanted what seemed average.

In the same way, if my 4 yr-old didn't seem interested in learning her numbers or letters, I would've pushed her to learn them. If I let her do it on her own, she would've learned them eventually, but I just wanted what she was capable of.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: meldi
Wed, 11-03-2004 - 3:18pm
They are also quite capable, biologically, of being toilet trained well before age 2. I was elswhere this summer and was part of a debate on the pros and cons of disposable diapers. The things are newly available there, and an expectant mom was in the bunch. Guess what their #1 problem is with disposables "Children reach age 2 and still aren't toilet trained! Can you believe it!? Isn't that right Opinion...your children aren't toilet traind until THEY'RE 2! ." My rebuttal probably wasn't all that convincing, being pretty much comprised of this "(under my breath: if you're lucky) So what? They all get it done soon enough".

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
In reply to: meldi
Wed, 11-03-2004 - 3:19pm
When I was used to being awakened at least once a night to nurse or whatever, I found it quite easy to go back to sleep. That is no longer the case, however, and now when someone wakes me up, it takes longer (sometimes an hour or more) for me to get back to sleep.
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-29-2002
In reply to: meldi
Wed, 11-03-2004 - 3:25pm
PNJ felt that most of the reasons children over the age of 3 wake up for at night are not valid enough reasons for disturbing a parent's sleep. If a child needs a cuddle at 4 am, be it in their bed or their parents' bed, that is not a good enough reason for said child to disturb her sleep. Her children need to learn to sleep through until 7am and she doesn't feel that they should disturb her until that time (I gather that illness is an exception to that rule).

I feel differently. If one of my children needs me in the night because they need comforting for whatever reason (nightmare, loneliness, sudden fear etc.) I will provide that comforting. Sometimes I cuddled them and tucked them back into their own bed, sometimes they asked to come into our bed. Co-sleeping was never a critical part of our parenting philosphy. When it came to where everyone should sleep we followed a pretty basic rule: where everyone sleeps best is where everyone should sleep. That meant a fairly flexible approach with a combination of the kids sleeping in their own beds as well as in our bed. The only fairly firm rule we stuck to in terms of location was that the kids should start out the night in their own beds, mostly because dh and I usually read in bed together for a while before going to sleep and that was (and is) a very important part of our private time together. Even then, we always made exceptions to that rule in case of illness or other issues and we never had to leave them to CIO for them to be quite amenable to this rule. Once everyone was ready to actually sleep, it didn't matter a whole lot who slept where as long as everyone was comfortable.

Laura


Edited 11/3/2004 4:35 pm ET ET by laura_w2

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
In reply to: meldi
Wed, 11-03-2004 - 3:44pm
But can you acknowledge that another expert (or many of them) that know just as much as he does, but completely disagree with him, might also be worth listening to?
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: meldi
Wed, 11-03-2004 - 3:44pm
Of course.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 01-29-2004
In reply to: meldi
Wed, 11-03-2004 - 5:05pm
I actually think where my children sleep is important to preventing night wakings. (I think we all awaken several times at night, but I'm focusing on those times children call out for mom and dad.) I think babies and children prefer to sleep with mom and dad. So, after they call out, I soothe them in their rooms and don't leave their rooms. If they get used to coming to my bed, they'll like it better than sleeping alone, I'm sure.

I think a lot of my friends who co-sleep have pre-schoolers with a pattern of starting out in their own beds, but fully waking around 1 or 2 a.m. sufficiently to walk down to mom and dad's bed for the rest of the night. That is waking without a "real" reason. It's avoidable. I think it becomes more of a habit than a real need or a fear or something.

I know I missed out on a bit of bonding by never co-sleeping. But, I didn't want to start co-sleeping knowing I would want what we have now - everyone in her own bed the whole night.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-20-2004
In reply to: meldi
Wed, 11-03-2004 - 5:12pm
So when they were infants did you adjust that 7pm bedtime backwards or forwards when adjusting to daylight savings time?

Karen

"A pocketknife is like a melody;
sharp in some places,

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