ACK! I made a huge mistake!! Help

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
ACK! I made a huge mistake!! Help
8
Wed, 07-16-2003 - 7:58pm
New here. I made an innocent thread on my May 03 playgroup, offering to answer questions or offer support to those looking to delay or forgo baby shots. And now the cl's and others are on me like flies and I have been invited to leave the group. Help!!

~Amy with six fully unvaccinated, healthy, happy young'uns
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-17-2003
Thu, 07-17-2003 - 9:12am
Hi Amy,

I went and read the posts on your playgroup and I don't see where you did anything wrong with your initial post. The nurse came in with her opinion and I see where she made reference: "which would you rather your child have a mild fever and sore leg for a day or so from a shot or be a statistic of a childhood illness" being a bit off color. I saw it as her trying to scare the parents who haven't researched vaccines into just going ahead with the schedule by saying the diseases are on the rise. She skipped where reactions can and do occur. She also said that the dead vaccines are very safe.... hmmm I've always heard ~No vaccine is safe~.

Delaying or foregoing vaccines is not a popular topic with the health care workers so you will be unpopular for mentioning it. Even talking with your friends and family you will get the "gasp!" reactions. I have. One of my Aunts works for a Pediatrician and gives shots. She hounded me during a family cookout for stopping vaxes on my DS. My DD will be 5 months old soon and hasn't received any shots. Our Ped had told us through the receptionist that he doesn't take kids that don't get shots. When we offered to come in to discuss this with him because he had agreed with us previously he had us come in and no mention was made "by him" of that phone call. Soooo, I brought it up and told him that we were not pleased by that and that we are still delaying vaccines and does he have a problem with that. He said no. I asked him why all the fuss on the phone and he didn't say anything, just looked at my DH and I and said he had no problem delaying. If in the future he DOES have a problem seeing my kids and they are non-vax (delayed whatever ;) then we know of a great Family Practitioner who sees lots of children we could call. But for now, I love the Ped we see so until then we will keep going there.

You signed one post that your DH is a Doctor. What type of Doctor?

Avatar for suschi
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Thu, 07-17-2003 - 12:58pm
Well, they can ask you to leave, but you don't have to. You did not violate any TOS. I think there are many who appreciate the info, as negative vaccine info is not readily available in the main stream avenues. You may not find too many speaking out though, as you can see how those who don't like vaccines are attacked.

I asked a nurse once (who said part of her job was giving children their shots) if they had mercury in the vaccines they used. She said she wasn't even aware that mercury was in the vaccines. (this was right around the time the recommendation was being made to remove/reduce mercury from the vaccines). So just because one may be a nurse, and even one who routinely injects infants and children with vaccines, that doesn't mean they know all about the vaccines they are injecting.

It it is very hard to prove vaccine damage when a child is maimed or killed, because the mechanisms involved are not yet understood. The only correlation they have is certain injuries that fall within a very specific timetable, and even then, they don't want to admit it was the vaccine. I have found in too many cases that vaccine relation is denied, but no other cause is found. Sids via vaccine may not have been proven conclusively, but it hasn't been disproved either. I see that the nurse is asking you for studies to prove relation. I would want to see SIDS rates in the vaccinated vs the unvaccinated, and compare all the other ills as well that are currently plaguing our children...but according to those who have the means to do this, it would be unethical. I don't see how, if a child is not vaccinated by choice. But to do such a study, I believe would be too eye opening and too damaging to the vaccine program as we know it.

I wish someone had warned me to look into the vaccines back in 1984 when my first child was born. I would have been more aware of the amount of new vaccines that have been added to the schedule since I was a child, (approx 9 doses needed before school), compared with those my older children were required to get (approx 21 doses before school), compared with what today's children are required to receive (approx 40 doses before starting school!)

I read that one baby in your playgroup had 7 doses injected into her in one day! Ack.

Anyway, a pat on the back for bringing this very important subject to the attention of your playgroup. Don't let them shoot the messenger. Here's a page I like that introduces the vaccine controvsery,

http://www.ias.org.nz/whats_all_the_fuss_about.htm

and an interesting bit on bmilk and pertussis,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2227362&dopt=Abstract

If it were me, I would stay with your group, I am sure there are moms there that would like you to keep posting!! Let those know if they don't like your posts, that is what the ignore button is for.

Christine







iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Thu, 07-17-2003 - 3:04pm
Hi Amy~ Welcome to the board!

Seems like a lot of the hot-button issues set off sparks on the support boards ~ (vaccination, circumcision, discipline styles, co-sleeping, breast vs. bottle) to name a few~

I Co-CL the Parents of May 2001 Toddlers Board,and it seems that most of the ladies just sort of agreed to not fight over things, KWIM? BUT, you can't expect to offer one side of the info, and NOT expect the those who disagree to withhold their own information. I think the statement asking for testimony may have been the part that crossed a line. It's rather just inviting the debate. It may be subtle, but the meaning is clear, and your POV is clear as well. I think the offer to give info via email, or referral to a Vaccine-specific board would have been a much better move- and you would have elicited the responses from those who truly were receptive or curious wihtout garnering disagreement & debate. I know that when one of our boardies (on that or other boards I cl) asks about the vaccination issues, I will give my opinion & state it as such (I am a vaccination advocate), offer links to specific questions- but I also include links to these iVillage boards & pages:

Vaccine Resources

http://pages.ivillage.com/cl-mferkul/

***********************************************

Immunization Debate Board at Parent Soup:

http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-psimmunize

************************************************

Vaccination Debate Board at Parent Place:

http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-ppvaccinedb

************************************************

Vaccine Support Board at Parent Place:

http://boards.parentsplace.com/cgi-bin/boards/vaccines

***********************************************

Vaccine Support Resource Pages:

http://pages.ivillage.com/vaccinesupport

***********************************************

Non-Vaccine Support Board at Parent Place:

http://boards.parentsplace.com/cgi-bin/boards/nonvaccines

***********************************************

However, if the person states they are firmly PRO or NON-vax, I do not try to argue with them, nor persuade them otherwise & simply offer the links to the proper support board & debates only.

Other than this advice, I'm not sure what other help we can offer. Being a support board (the May 2003 Playgroup), debating is generally frowned upon. But offering links to other iVillage boards is quite kosher~

~Miki

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
Thu, 07-17-2003 - 4:56pm
Hi there, thanks for your input. Isnt it fun being hounded by those who disagree? WHat ever happened to respecting to disagree? I had the most terrible time with our pedatricians in CA, when my husband was going to graduate school, they would outright tell me I was stupid. I never ceased to be amazed. NOw that we live in WA the atmospehere seems better and I have less trouble, though I RARELY go to the doctor, we prefer more natural methods of healing. My husband is a Doctor of Chiropractic, and while in college he learned the dangers of vaccination. He also did his term paper on the newly realeased (at that time) varicella vaccine.

Congrats on that healthy baby!

~Amy
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
Thu, 07-17-2003 - 6:53pm
Where's the "rolling my eyes" icon?

Amy, I've just come from the May 03 board via the "senior community member"'s admonition to the group for being mean to you. I've been following that group since September and they are an argumentative lot. As a vac-shy, no-circ, cloth-diapering, co-sleeping militant milker, I've frequently said to myself, "screw 'em, if they don't want to hear my opinions - I know I've helped somebody out there".

This is actually the first time I've checked back in since having my baby, and I don't miss them. I just happened to read your OP and my eyes just rocketed to the back of my head when I saw who your problem's with. Yeesh! Ignore them and contribute when you feel like it. Chin up!!

Cheers, Joanne

Avatar for paccookie
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Sun, 07-20-2003 - 2:34am
I went and read all the posts and I don't see why they would ask you to leave, unless they simply don't agree with you! You weren't asking for a debate and I seem to remember you specifically stating that you did not want to debate the issue, you only wanted to contact other like-minded moms to chat with! I brought up this issue on my August 2000 board around 2 years ago and got some responses that were less than supportive but it never turned into a nasty debate. I guess the key is respect for each other, something your board needs to learn. That nurse's replies were rude. I wanted so badly to reply to her but I didn't since I'm not a member of that board. ;-) Just because she gives the shots doesn't mean she knows all about them. Her posts prove that! She knows what the drs and pharmacutical reps have told her and that's about it. Of course there's no conclusive data proving that SIDS is linked to DTP shots! But they're no data that disproves it either. The same goes for autism and the MMR shot. I tend to agree that both are probably caused by the shots, but I can't prove it either. It would be a terrible study to run, but someone needs to keep up with this stuff. They wouldn't have to purposefully inject the vaxs into a child, just follow the children and see what happens. If the parents are vaxing or not vaxing anyway and have already made that decision, what's the big problem??? I think they just don't want that data floating around and won't do the studies because it may make them look bad.

We stopped vaxing our daughter when she was 12 months old. She got all her shots through her 6 month appt and I still feel guilty about that. She never had a bad reaction, just the typical fevers and some knots on her legs, but that was bad enough. It was a horrible experience seeing the nurses hold my precious baby down to give her the shots. She screamed, I cried and dh wanted to leave the room. He pretty much refused to go to anymore appts w/ shots involved after the 2 month shots. I made the decision to stop vaxing and he said to do what I felt was right. Now he pretty much agrees with me that they are not as safe as the drs will tell you they are. Our new baby (due in January) will not be vaxed at all.

I think it's wonderful that you've done your research and decided not to vax. It's also wonderful that you're nursing. I nursed Corinne for 2.5 years and it was great (well, it was great most of the time LOL). I can't wait to have another new baby to nurse!

Christina

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Sun, 07-20-2003 - 5:37pm
That *nurse* came back & posted some most gracious replies to the OP, LOL. But hey, we can debate the debate, if you'd like.
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-06-2003
Wed, 07-23-2003 - 11:09am
That was rude! I have not vaccinated my baby as of yet, I am not anti vaccination altogether, I just think it is wrong to inject my newborn with all those diseases, when I am so cautious what I feed her and how right now. If I can only feed my baby one grain at a time, so as to make sure she is not allergic, than why is it that my Dr. thinks it is okay for her to be injected with 3-5 different diseases at once? I just cannot understand that mentality!

I just wanted to let you know that as a new mom, I would have loved to have someone on my EC board, to help me solidy my opinions on vaccination. You were just being willing to give information, not telling them they should do anything your way. I think that you should write the CM and CL's a letter, expressing how you were just trying to help, and that you were hurt by their actions. I think they were totally wrong. I am sure they would not kick someone off the board (or rather, ask them to leave) because they were of a different religion, and to me, vaccination is a choice, just as religion is.

I am sorry that this happened to you.

Love,

Amanda (in VA) with Emma Jane (unvaccinated --for now -- 6 month old baby girl)