CA deadly pertussis epidemic

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-18-2005
CA deadly pertussis epidemic
40
Thu, 06-24-2010 - 1:04pm

An example of what can happen in communities with low vax levels (in this case, due to poor access to healthcare among migrant farm workers).


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/24/us/24cough.html?ref=us


Gwen

Spring 2010 siggyPhotobucket Photobucket

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc248/gwennyc/b6yfcl.png<A href="http://s218.photobucket

Pages

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2007
Mon, 07-05-2010 - 4:29pm

]]

C'mon Dana, really? I don't see how this helps further the discussion in any rational manner. You would take offense to people telling you you're stupid, wouldn't you?

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2007
Mon, 07-05-2010 - 4:32pm

]]

you're making it rather difficult to do that. Some people don't like to exchange jabs (pun intended) like you do.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2007
Mon, 07-05-2010 - 5:03pm

]]

To you, and your inference in that pp, that the tidbit Dana was focusing on, was the opposite of what you took from it. (I think)

There's a lot of information available on the failure of pertussis vaccine, if people want to find it. I'll share some in case you've not seen it. I'm kind of new to it myself, and actually had to have people explain to me why it was relevant:

1) adenylate cyclase toxin - it's part and parcel of why pertussis is difficult for people to clear quickly and creates the prolonged agonizing cough we all know and dread. (and the scary one we hear with infants). turns out, ACT is what causes this effect, not pertussis toxin (that's what's in the vaccine) and that's demonstrated in this mice model.

http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/58/10/3445?ijkey=87f48d8d959d5bc71350cc153e752431a10eeb02&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha

When vaccinated people go on to get pertussis infection (since the vax doesn't prevent carriage or transmission) what happens to them isn't very good:

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/CID/jo%20...%2011.web.pdf

"Of particular interest is the lack of a significant ACT (adenylate cyclase toxin) antibody response in children for whom the DTP or DTaP vaccines failed. This induced tolerance is intriguing and may be due to the phenomenon called “original antigenic sin” . In this phenomenon, a child responds at initial exposure to all presented epitopes of the infecting agent or vaccine. With repeated exposure when older, the child responds preferentially to those epitopes shared with the original infecting agent or vaccine and can be expected to have responses to new epitopes of the nfecting agent that are less marked than normal. Because both vaccines contained multiple antigens (i.e., PT, FHA, PRN, and fimbriae),the patients who had been vaccinated responded to the antigens that they had been primed with and did not respond to the new antigen (i.e., ACT) associated with infection. "

That means that being vaccinated prevents you from creating antibodies to the most important antigen/component and when you go on to get pertussis anyway, you will not be able to clear the disease causing agent *because* of your vaccinated status, while your unvaccinated counterpart is recovering. A little different than what you might read here:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/pertussis/default.htm

Hmm. I didn't see any clinical studies on that parent page, did you? I sure didn't see anything negative about the vaccine either... did you?

Then there's this:

http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/full/68/12/7175

"Sera from six adults, collected before and after acellular pertussis vaccination, and from a placebo control were examined for the ability to elicit two bactericidal immune defenses, (i) antibody-dependent complement-mediated bacterial lysis and (ii) opsonization and phagocytosis by human neutrophils. The samples were chosen based on low preimmunization titers and strong postimmunization responses to various combinations of vaccine antigens. All but two prevaccination samples demonstrated activity indicative of complement-mediated lysis. Preimmunization activity could have been due to prior infection or childhood immunization. Immunization did not result in improved bactericidal activity for any of the individuals, and in two cases immunization caused a statistically significant decrease in complement-mediated lysis. Similarly, opsonization with the postimmunization sera failed to enhance attachment or phagocytosis of bacteria by neutrophils, and one postimmunization sample with a strong response to filamentous hemagglutinin caused an inhibition of phagocytosis that was statistically significant compared to that observed for the no-serum control. In summary, booster immunization of adults with acellular pertussis vaccines was not found to increase bactericidal activity over preimmunization levels. Identifying ways to promote bactericidal immune responses might improve the efficacy of acellular pertussis vaccines."

Um, that's even worse. There is no demonstrable benefit to vaccinating the older populations, and they know it. That's why there is a disclaimer on this vaccine in the PSAs... becoming more susceptible to parapertussis isn't something your GP is likely to discuss with you when you roll up your sleeve, doesn't mean it's not a real issue, and negative outcome of the widespread use of this vaccine.

I'm not saying protection against pertussis isn't important, but it's not *so* important that we need to lie about the benefits of this vaccine, and while using the tragic death of five infants in order to guilt people into vaccine compliance, no less.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-03-2006
Mon, 07-05-2010 - 9:17pm

Thanks for all the info.


First link is 20 years old.

Photobucket
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2007
Tue, 07-06-2010 - 12:12am

]]

So what?

]]

You appear to be suffering from a form of tunnel vision that is preventing you from realising any negative impact from the widepsread use of this vaccine. Of course there's no suggestion that it's worthless, and when they finally modify it to appropriately address the shortcomings, they'll tell us that current version was close to worthless... but not until then.

I'll try to fix the second link tomorrow when I have time...

]]

I'd appreciate you not trying to wrap me up in aluminum foil. I've given you no reason to do so, please stop.

What you emphasized in my last link is kinda funny (besides focusing on the size of the sample, since the tests performed are certainly NOT routine, though necessary to demonstrate the pitfalls of the vaccine) - and you skipped right over this part:

"shown to inhibit phagocytosis"

I showed you that it's worse than not perfect - it doesn't work the way it's supposed to. Do you not think that phagocytosis is relevant in the clearance of pertussis?

I'm not telling you not to get it, only trying to make you understand that there are reasons with a foundation in science that describe why others don't. You cannot demonstrate with the current body of evidence that your vaccination status is superior to mine (since you can still carry the bacteria, and likely won't clear it as fast as I will)... at the most, you'll be less symptomatic (and mingling about society thinking you have bronchitis or something like that, since it's not likely you'd be diagnostically tested to see if you have pertussis since you've been vaxxed).

Are the articles cited in this write up considered ok?

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/vaccine-efficacy-how-often-do-vaccines-work/dtap/pertussis-vaccine-and-transmission/

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-21-2010
Sat, 07-10-2010 - 12:17am

Calling a sentence stupid is in no way calling a person stupid. To use the word "mandatory", which she did, is what makes it a stupid sentence. The word leaves the person thinking there is no other option. In most of America, there's another option.

I take offense to the word "mandatory".

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-21-2010
Sat, 07-10-2010 - 12:22am
I will leave the drama behind then. Answers to prayers are often so obvious...
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2007
Sat, 07-10-2010 - 9:52pm
You're right. Sorry if I was harsh.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-22-2010
Thu, 07-15-2010 - 2:39pm
My brother DIED from pertussis.
Do not say that it isn't deadly.

pregnancy

pregnancy 


iVillage Member
Registered: 04-09-2008
Mon, 07-26-2010 - 2:33pm

I'm sorry for your loss. It should have stated "pertussis is mostly not deadly". Anything is deadly to any body. Not surprisingly however, pertussis runs in circles, both amongst the vacc and non-vacc alike.


http://www.scielosp.org/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0102-311X2001000300005

Rands


Rands

Pages