crunchymomto2 ... varicella-talk

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-24-2008
crunchymomto2 ... varicella-talk
16
Sat, 06-13-2009 - 11:16pm

Hey .. I'd posted a thing about "something I read" on the vaccine support board .. well I just came across it again .. I guess I don't know just how sound this guys research / sources are .. and its from a website that I might not be too inclined to take terribly seriously .. but interesting read nonetheless .. does make me question some of that stats that are touted by the AAP and CDC .. as well as the completeness of their presentation of data.. curious what you think :)

Jim Davis, D.C., F.I.C.P.A., I.C.P.A.. Diplomate Candidate
Jan-feb 2003

Chicken pox is usually a mild disease in children. However, the push to mandate this vaccine for a relatively harmless disease of childhood (90 % of cases are in children < 10 years of age who have mild and rarely severe complications), stems from the high complications and mortality rate among high risk individuals. These groups of people are for whom the vaccine was originally designed. Those groups include children with leukemia or persons receiving steroids (given to persons with cancer, organ transplants, kidney disease and asthma.) Steroids are known to be immuno-supressors, leaving some people defenseless against what would normally be harmless diseases (9). These immuno-suppressed persons comprise only .1% of all chicken pox cases, yet constitutes the majority of chicken pox complications.(1,2,3)

Adults are another high risk group for complications from chicken pox. Adults comprise only 2% of chicken pox cases, but are responsible for 55% of deaths.
When an individual contracts the "wild" chicken pox virus, they develop a lifelong immunity to the disease. A question that should be asked is: do children who get the vaccine develop the same lifetime immunity? The answer is no one knows. The question remains as to whether mass vaccination in childhood will cause the disease to be delayed into adulthood where it will cause many more deaths and complications. A recent study looked at the results of 20 years of varicella vaccine use in Japan. It states "the incidence of adult varicella in Japan is increasing with substantial social cost"(4). Even Merck, the manufacturer of the vaccine states "the duration of protection of Varivax (chicken pox vaccine) is unknown at present" and "in a highly vaccinated population immunity for some individuals may wane". Merck also admits: "no placebo controlled trial was carried out with Varivax using the current vaccine" and "there is insufficient data to access the rate of protection against the complications (eg. encephalitis, hepatitis, pneumonia) in children". It also states the same for adults(5). This is a remarkable admission. The purpose of vaccinating every child is to avoid complications from the chicken pox. If we don't know whether or not it prevents these complications, why would it be given to healthy children?

Besides the obvious lack of knowledge on protection against complications from the chicken pox vaccine and by quite possibly causing more harm by delaying the disease until adulthood, we should investigate the most current data regarding what should matter most: deaths related to chicken pox.
According to Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR) published by the CDC 45% of all chicken pox related deaths occur in children. Using the most current data available: four years prior to vaccination with varicella vaccine an average of 46 children died per year due to chicken pox complications. Since the mass inoculation of children with Varivax there have been and average of 42 deaths per year from complications from the disease. However, one should also include reports of adverse effects of the vaccine for an accurate comparison. According to information from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) since 1999 there have been an average of 10 deaths per year associated with the varicella vaccine. Pre-varicella vaccine: 42 deaths per year. Post varicella vaccine: 52 deaths per year. This is astonishing especially when one looks at the FDA's admission that only 1-10% of all adverse reactions are ever reported. The 10 vaccine deaths could be 100-1000 deaths considering the vast under reporting according to the FDA.

Dr. Walter Orenstein, Director, CDC National Immunization Program, described being kept up for several nights with his five-year-old during a bout of chicken pox, admitting, "It's this kind of problem that the vaccine would help eliminate rather than serious disease"(6). According to the World Health Organization the United States is the only county in the world who has the chicken pox vaccine on its vaccine schedule. Are we so far advanced in our thinking compared to the rest of the world, or are we too willing to jump on the "any vaccine bandwagon" without appropriate testing (let alone need) of the chicken pox vaccine?

It also appears that the chicken pox vaccine may cause an increase risk for developing shingles (7,8). Some have also suggested a re-evaluation of the mass chicken pox vaccination policy until we know exactly what the increased incidence of shingles will be. Scientists estimate as a result of varicella vaccination there will be an increase of 100 deaths per year from the shingles. Coincidently, this is approximate number of chicken pox related deaths per year.

Looking at the MMWR post-vaccination death rates and the possible added deaths due to the increase in shingles, it appears we may be increasing the overall deaths by giving the vaccine. This does not even include the number of deaths caused by side effects of the vaccine. Even with data such as this, the logical thinking to stop and re-evaluate the current policy and to look closer at the shingles/varicella vaccine association is not being done. Instead of examining this relationship, a large study is underway for the development of a shingles vaccine. Is it any coincidence the company researching this new vaccine is also the same company that produces the varicella vaccine? The Varivax vaccine earns Merck nearly one billion dollars per year, will this new shingles vaccine earn the same? Will it create new side effects, which will lead to increased incidence of some other malady, causing the "need" for another vaccine? Vaccines to treat problems caused by vaccines. Sounds like and interesting and profitable business plan.

The chicken pox virus does not kill. The complications due to the disease cause potential problems to high risk individuals. Those are the people the vaccine was originally designed for and those are the individuals that should be vaccinated. The varicella vaccine has insufficient evidence that it reduces the complications of chicken pox and has not affected death rates (at least in a positive manner) since being introduced in 1995. We do not know if it will push the onset of chicken pox into adulthood where it is 25 times more likely to become lethal. Let parents decide if they want to give their child yet another vaccine, but please do not allow them to be misinformed and allow their children to be used as experimental subjects without giving them all of the facts to help them make an informed decision.

This article was submitted by Jim Davis, DC, FICPA and Candidate for the ICPA Diplomate program.

References provided on-line at:
http://pathwaystofamilywellness.org/references.html




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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-09-2008
Mon, 06-15-2009 - 12:32pm

This to me seems like common sense. It's entirely plausible that God knew what he was doing.


This reminds me of babies getting the Hep B at birth because they couldn't get the target groups effected to take it - so get all at birth and eventually rid yourself of the problem.


A review of the MMWR data shows that with CP death rates for adults are higher than those of children. We know that CP is

Rands

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-17-2005
Tue, 06-16-2009 - 12:57am

Thanks Melissa! I'll come back to this and comment later. I'm in a terrible mood right now so I can't focus on vaccine stuff or even the pharma mafia. Between my posts (all of them I think) being deleted (support board), some other emails I got today and an article I just read about ADHD drugs and the FDA...I need to go back to work and come back to the board later. Later, when I can stop wanting to write something that's gonna get me kicked off IV for good. They seriously need to rename that board - "Support the Lies Board" - now that name would suit it to a "T"! All I did is correct the good doctor...UGH! Maybe I should have only corrected her once, lol! I really enjoyed reading your posts over there! It took all I had not to post there again but I'll put on my big girl panties and walk away.

Thanks for finding this for me! I'll be back in a day or two when I can let this go...for now I'll post the two articles I was just reading and then I'll go for now. I'll come back in full debate mode ;) but I totally agreed with the writer of the article you posted.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-24-2008
Tue, 06-16-2009 - 12:48pm

Oohh... they deleted your posts?! I'd be mad (they prob deleted mine, too, I haven't looked)!!<< censored ;) >>




Edited 6/16/2009 2:06 pm ET by milacelcia


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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-09-2008
Tue, 06-16-2009 - 1:14pm

Word of caution, sweetpea.....


you're not allowed to refer to another board on a board in a negative light. You can be "generic" but not specific. Specificities will get your patties slapped.


What you "can do" - is be generic enough to obviously know what you're talking about but not say it....


Such as..... "Some Boards" or "Some people" or one of my all time favorites "I heard".... LOL - we'll all know what you mean. :-)


And no.... some individuals on some boards are not allowed to be questioned - and if statements are made to the contrary of some of the individual's beliefs, then, you may find any conversation disappearing into cyber space; cuz some work as a one way information flow only; no matter how inaccurate, or, no matter the warning signals that one could easily be confused by one practicing medicine over the internet thus spurring a lovely lawsuit.

Rands

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-24-2008
Tue, 06-16-2009 - 2:06pm
good to know ;) taken care of!



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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-17-2005
Wed, 06-17-2009 - 3:19pm

What was weird was that one of my post reappeared. It was gone. Yours was there, but now when you click the number for yours, it takes you to mine and yours is gone. Well - that was last night, it may have gotten corrected by now. I never sent this last night and just now realized it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-17-2005
Wed, 06-17-2009 - 3:48pm

Let me precede this by saying that I don’t include Anthony or Melissa in any of my rants about the chickenpox and scientists/doctors/nurses. :)

I am just so disturbed by some of the things that doctors and other medical professionals think. Where do they get such crazy ideas??? Wow! I just learned that today, *some* Epidemiologist believe that out of a population of over 20 million, there will be 45 deaths from chickenpox. Where would they get such idiotic numbers??? Do they consider all the illegal aliens in their computations? Do they honestly believe that chickenpox deaths would occur in numbers that great? Again, where do such idiotic numbers come from? They must be projected figures. I would have to agree that yep, after the vaccinating for chickenpox gets more and more out of hand, we WILL see more deaths but they are not from a self-limiting disease! No, these are deaths from modern medicine!

They say this is basic Epidemiology - 45 out of 20 million. I just have to ask - does History EVER play a role in Epidemiology? Basic common sense - does it play any role at all???

45 Out of 20 million is more like Scare Tactics 101 if you ask me.

Using vaccines to try and eradicate the chickenpox has not been feasible thus far. Loosing natural boosters to the disease is known to be dangerous for our future. Scientist know this now so - where do the scientist go from here? What do they tell doctors? What should doctors tell their patients?

“These immuno-suppressed persons comprise only .1% of all chicken pox cases, yet constitutes the majority of chicken pox complications.”

These medical professionals and scientist are not stupid people – so why do they do stupid things? Did the industry foresee the future? Did they realize then that loosing natural immunity would cause so many problems? No. But now they do. They are ignoring the facts.

All in the name of money they decided to vaccinate all children to “protect” the unhealthy which made up only 1% of chickenpox cases. They later realized that the vaccine was failing – primary and secondary failure – yet they continued with the vaccine program, adding boosters (a/k/a adding money) to the program.

It’s insane!

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-17-2005
Wed, 06-17-2009 - 4:28pm

"Adults are another high risk group for complications from chicken pox. Adults comprise only 2% of chicken pox cases, but are responsible for 55% of deaths."

Did the pharma-scientists not plan ahead for primary and secondary vaccine failure with this vaccine? Oh, that's right, they didn't plan ahead, instead they just created yet another vaccine (for shingles)...one that also has a high rate of both primary and secondary failure if truth be told!

I'm wondering if the medical community even realizes that this is a childhood disease and it rarely ever leads to complications for children who get it. I know they are trained to believe that it is dangerous when adults get it. But are they trained to know that most adults who didn't present symptoms of the disease during childhood likely *did* get the lifelong immunity anyway? (But they had to be EXPOSED to the disease to get the natural immunity from it.)

Bottom Line, the varicella vaccine program is killing the natural protection that we were once allowed by nature. It's destroying any chance of a newborn having temporary transmaternal immunity as well.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-17-2005
Wed, 06-17-2009 - 5:33pm

“A recent study looked at the results of 20 years of varicella vaccine use in Japan. It states "the incidence of adult varicella in Japan is increasing with substantial social cost"(4). Even Merck, the manufacturer of the vaccine states "the duration of protection of Varivax (chicken pox vaccine) is unknown at present" and "in a highly vaccinated population immunity for some individuals may wane". Merck also admits: "no placebo controlled trial was carried out with Varivax using the current vaccine" and "there is insufficient data to access the rate of protection against the complications (eg. encephalitis, hepatitis, pneumonia) in children". It also states the same for adults(5). This is a remarkable admission. The purpose of vaccinating every child is to avoid complications from the chicken pox. If we don't know whether or not it prevents these complications, why would it be given to healthy children?”

“"there is insufficient data to access the rate of protection against the complications (eg. encephalitis, hepatitis, pneumonia) in children"”

Insufficient data?

Does that include the data given to parents in the pediatrician’s office? How about the data given to Epidemiologist? And the data touted by the media? Is that insufficient too?

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-17-2005
Wed, 06-17-2009 - 8:10pm

“Vaccines to treat problems caused by vaccines. Sounds like and interesting and profitable business plan.”

Apparently, the introduction of pharmaceuticals which create the need for more pharmaceuticals is indeed profitable:

Like the Pertussis vaccine causing Asthma (JAMA 1994) (Thorax 1998) (Epidimiology 1997, New Zealand Study). That created a need for an inhaler, a pill and more for the rest of the patients life.

Or in my brother’s case, the Pertussis portion of the DPT causing the need for THREE daily doses of Phenobarbital, Dilantin and Depokote, along with two daily doses of Valium from the early 70’s until his enlarged heart failed in 1992.

Like the MMR and some of the Hepatitis Vaccines causing Diabetes, Crohn’s Disease, Bowel Disorders and Guillain-Barre Syndrome which the pharma-mafia has a wide array of drugs to treat.

Like the Rubella Vaccine causing Congenital Rubella Syndrome (CRS). The government data can be found in the CDC’s MMWR (October 25, 1996).

And here:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pmcentrez&artid=28289

We know the Polio Vaccine caused cancer…all those chemo drugs – are they working?
Well, they are making some folks a lot of money, never-mind if they work or not.

The Hepatitis B Vaccine has a history of causing Arthritis, among many other ailments. The pharma-mafia has been hard at work creating new Arthritis drugs year after year.

We never needed a vaccine for Hib-Meningitis until the DPT caused Hib to circulate. In addition, many studies suggest that the Hib Vaccine caused an increase in Diabetes. It is also suggested (in the literature) that the Hib Vaccine caused an increase in Haemophilus Influenzae Type E (Hie) and Type F (Hif) Bacterial Infections. Pneumococcal and Meningococcal Disease also increased after the introduction of the Hib Vaccine.

I could go on and on. The point is – we would have never needed a Shingles Vaccine if not for the Chickenpox Vaccine. The vaccine program has done a very dangerous thing by trying to eradicate the Chickenpox. They are ignoring what’s to come. Or maybe they are not – maybe they’re happily awaiting the day when they’ll reap the benefits of selling the shingles vaccines and boosters to every American who had the Chickenpox Vaccine as a child.

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