Debating With a Closed Mind?

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-17-2007
Debating With a Closed Mind?
85
Tue, 01-12-2010 - 10:41pm
Kinda defeats the purpose, dont you think? Esp. on a board like this. How can anyone listen to someone debating a topic if they use the same approach all the time and keep repeating the same info all the time without contributing anything new and fresh?? Let alone, listen to any of what the person is saying, or take the advice into real consideration? i certainly cannot listen to someone who is lacking in the info dep't nor is it a learning experience to debate with a person like that. Debating for me is a learning experience, that opens my eyes a little more to the other side.. but sometimes that other side is so closed minded, its easier to walk away, than to waste my time.
Debating the topic of vaccines is tiring when all another person can offer is groupspeak and hearsay, and the same old tired info thats been passed around for so long we all know it by heart. But that doesn't mean we believe it. Yes, we already know what the CDC and AAP have to say on the topic. We are here to debate their assumptions and findings, and any other erroneous claims from related matters. Scientific Facts have little to no credibility in debate(such as here) when they come from a place that is making a profit on their sales.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 11-06-2009
Wed, 01-13-2010 - 12:26pm

By all means, debate away the current state of findings.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-09-2008
Wed, 01-13-2010 - 2:16pm

Nigeria Sees Polio Outbreak from Mutated Vaccine Virus


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/health/july-dec09/polio_08-24.html

Rands

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-22-2004
Wed, 01-13-2010 - 2:25pm

I mainly lurk here, but I think that you hit upon something in #2 of your list that I needed to point out.

>>scientific principles and ethical standards, practitioners are committed to improving the human condition<<

This seems to be the crux of the debate. I do not think the debate can move forward until this topic is agreed upon.

It is easy to say that a corporation is evil, even an entire industry. However when you break it down to the most basic level we would be discussing the individuals who create and administer the vaccine. Why would someone study for years to be able to create something just to produce something that is purposefully harmful? Why would a doctor go through the years of school and then do harm? Sure, some people can be bought, but not the majority.

Wouldn't the pharmaceutical industry be more inclined to produce a good product, as it would yield the highest profit? The vaccines are tested and approved. From a financial standpoint it actually benefits them to have studies done. The safer the vaccine, the more money that can be made. When children are injured from vaccines, that is bad press, bad press = money loss. So even from a financial only standpoint, it benefits them to make a quality product.

This debate has come down to more than just the vaccines, it has become a general morality/ethical debate.

Kerri

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-06-2009
Wed, 01-13-2010 - 3:43pm

Rands,


Do you even read these articles?

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-16-2009
Wed, 01-13-2010 - 3:58pm

Wouldn't the pharmaceutical industry be more inclined to produce a good product, as it would yield the highest profit?


I would be apt to agree if every state had a philosophical exemption to the compulsory requirements for public school attendance.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-09-2008
Wed, 01-13-2010 - 3:58pm

Of course I read the article. Holy shmokes, you mean those vaccinated transmitted disease to those non (or failure) making strains more virulent? Jon, I thought those that were not vaccinated were the the disease pushers?


BTW, the US switched from OPV to IPV because the only cases of polio that were occurring was from the vaccine itself (we just didn't ho-hummingly switch).

Rands

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2007
Wed, 01-13-2010 - 4:17pm
I was looking here the other day, and realized it wasn't a debate board, it is an anti vax board. Which is fine, it would just be nice to have a place to go to actually talk about the pros and cons, not just the cons. I'm not sure why this board is considered a debate board.
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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-16-2009
Wed, 01-13-2010 - 4:43pm
Well please feel free to debate from the pro stance.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 11-06-2009
Wed, 01-13-2010 - 5:03pm

You recognize this is an interconnected world.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2007
Wed, 01-13-2010 - 5:11pm
I'm kind of afraid to!
But here are my thoughts, I'm not out to change anybody's mind, but here it is:
I believe that vaccines were created for a reason - to save lives. I have issues with people who are anti vax always implying that those of us who vaccinate our children are uneducated on the subject. I did quite a bit of research on vaccines while I was pregnant, and resent the "educate before you vaccinate" blinkies, etc. The truth is that if more and more people choose not to vaccinate, there will be an increase in outbreaks of dangerous diseases. And I hate the argument of "well, if your kid is vaccinated, why do you care if mine is not?" I do care, because you are indeed putting my child at risk. No vaccine is 100% effective, and I don't need my son being unnecessarily exposed to increased risk of contracting a disease from a child who is not vaccinated.
As for the all too common (IMO) mercury fear mongering, Thimerosal has not been used in vaccines since 2001, with the exception of the flu vax, which is available in a mercury free form (although, who really cares, one can of tuna contains 5 times the amount of mercury than a flu shot).
I would rather protect my son from a preventable disease than buy into the parenting fad of the year and go anti vax. The truth is, these diseases led to widespread deaths and plagues, that is why vaccines were created - they weren't created to disable or kill our children.
And here is my main point: As for the autism part of it, I don't believe autism is caused by vaccines. But more importantly, even if it was, I would rather have a child with autism than a child who died from a disease that I could have prevented him from getting. I think that there is no pleasing the anti vax crowd. And I always go back to this article by Dr. Ari Brown in the Wall Street Journal, IMO it says it all:
http://www.aap.org/immunization/families/aribrownletter.html
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