Eve, how do you refute Dr. Singh,,,,,,m

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Registered: 03-27-2003
Eve, how do you refute Dr. Singh,,,,,,m
5
Thu, 08-21-2003 - 1:27am
and other evidence related to children with autism having increased titres as well as antibodies to myelin basic protein? I'm just curious. I recently got a waiver for Joe's MMR for school entrance. It wasn't easy, but I did use Dr. Singh's study. I never heard anything back on the study. Maybe my ped just didn't have the time to discuss it with me.
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Registered: 03-27-2003
Sun, 08-31-2003 - 11:23am
Has it never come up? Are there any studies that you know of which have contradicted this?
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Registered: 03-25-2003
Sun, 08-31-2003 - 11:30pm
Liz - as far as I know, Singh is the only one who has hypothesized about the relationship between measles vaccine, myelin basic protein antibodies, and autism. Personally, I think his research raises far more questions than it answers and makes a few far-fetched hypotheses just as Wakefield has (eg monovalent M-M-R vs trivalent vaccine).

If I understand his hypotheses correctly (I have not seen the full text of his research), Singh relates vaccine derived measles with auto antibodies to myelin basic protein which, in turn, is somehow involved in the pathogenesis of autism. What I also understand, however, is the hypotheses involving autoantibodies to MBP in the pathogenesis of multiple sclerosis. What I don't understand is this (admitteedly, my understanding of the whole myelin and MBP physiology is limited):

(1) What is the role of myelin in the development of autism specifically? I can understand the role of antibodies against myelin in MS - a disease characterized by both central and peripheral nervous system symptoms. It makes little sense to me why measles related antibodies to MBP would only affect the central nervous system in a person with autism (ie cognitive/developmental symptoms) and spare the myelin found on peripheral (motor) nerves.

(2) If the autoantibodies are related to the measles portion of the MMR vaccine, why would we not expect to see the same problem in naturally acquired measles? I wonder what the anti-MBP levels in persons with autism who acquired measles naturally is. Could the elevated anti-MBP be a result of the autism in response to measles infection - rather than the other way around?

(3) What other anti-viral elevations in an autistic person's sera are there? Singh has also apparently studied the relationship between anti-HHV6 and anti-MBP finding a similar correlation. Could we not assume that the anti-viral antibody response in persons with autism can be similarly deranged against other viruses which subsequently affects anti-MBP? In other words, what other viruses are related to anti-MBP besides measles and HHV6? Could it be that a certain combination of viruses and their inherent antibody responses might result in anti-MBP elevations in those genetically predisposed to autism? Of course, it's unclear in the first place the role that anti-MBP has in autism.

Sorry Liz, I have no idea where Singh's hypotheses are going but there are far too many questions raised, imo, to hang a hat on.

Eve

 
 
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Registered: 03-27-2003
Mon, 09-01-2003 - 11:27pm
I have read Kanners original case studies and many of the parents either related the condition to a viral illness or a recent immunization back then - not the MMR. In Singh's studies, the increased titres were present in the children with autism and not the control subjects. Doesn't the myelin protect the nerve pathways? Sensory integration problems are very present in children with ASD.

I'm just wondering if the age plays a role. Kids are given this shot during a crucial time in their brain development. Perhaps if they caught measles it could do worse, but I wonder if historically children in this age category were at a great risk of exposure to measles. I'm sure not every kid got measles, but now just about every kid gets this shot and is exposed to the virus.

I am full of speculation, but I definitely don't feel secure having my daughter get the MMR given this study. I am probably going to wait until she is older.

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Registered: 03-25-2003
Tue, 09-02-2003 - 9:55pm
>>"In Singh's studies, the increased titres were present in the children with autism and not the control subjects."<<

Right - I questioned whether this was an inherent derangement in the manner in which antibody titers are produced by those with autism. In other words, the increased titers being a result of the autism (or whatever causes autism) rather than the other way around.

>>"Doesn't the myelin protect the nerve pathways? Sensory integration problems are very present in children with ASD."<<

Yes, but myelin covers ALL the nerves in the body - without myelin, signals are not propogated along the nerves properly. Although sensory integration problems are common in autism, peripheral motor problems are not (but are very characteristic in MS) and in many instances, children with autism appear to be OVERsensitive.



>>"I'm sure not every kid got measles, but now just about every kid gets this shot and is exposed to the virus."<<

That's just it, virtually all children DID get measles before adulthood prior to the introduction of vaccines.

>>"I am full of speculation, but I definitely don't feel secure having my daughter get the MMR given this study. I am probably going to wait until she is older."<<

Out of curiosity, at what age would you consider it safe and how will you determine that given that myelination is not complete until the 3rd or 4th decade of life?

Eve


 
 
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Registered: 03-27-2003
Tue, 09-02-2003 - 11:31pm
Not until the third or fourth decade huh? That is interesting. I think when she is speaking in full sentences I will feel secure. Perhaps somewhere around three. She will need the hep B and varivax to enter school. She hasn't had either of those.