Flawed Science

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2007
Flawed Science
20
Mon, 08-25-2008 - 11:36am

I just have a quick observation and question for any pro-vaccine people that might be lurking, or posting here.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-05-2008
Mon, 08-25-2008 - 2:07pm

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Excellent point. I'd like the answer to that question myself.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-29-2003
Mon, 08-25-2008 - 3:41pm

I'd also like to know, are unvaccinated people reaping the benefits of herd immunity or are they spreading disease in the herd?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-05-2008
Tue, 08-26-2008 - 6:28pm
Seems you may have stumped the pro-vaxers?! Good job!
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2007
Wed, 08-27-2008 - 4:11pm

I posed the question elsewhere, and received a response which basically said that:


1. you are taking advantage of the herd because they are the reason you don't get sick


2.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-05-2008
Wed, 08-27-2008 - 4:33pm
Unvax spread to unvaxed. So why is it the vaxed get the diseases? Because vaxes don't work? Or only if 100% of the people get them do they work? So, then they will never truly work regardless. So why get them? Because even if you're vaxed, you still have to worry about getting the disease AND you have to worry about adverse reactions to the vax itself. (Not counting the chronic conditions that no doubt are due in large part to vaccines.)
Avatar for suschi
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Thu, 08-28-2008 - 11:47am

Put that way, vaccines sound like a lose/lose situation.

And think about the parents who have a false sense of security via vaccine.

I know one thing for a fact, my unvaccinated child will NEVER suffer from an adverse vaccine reaction, or worry about the failure to properly diagnose one!

There are plenty of articles wrt the vaccinated indeed being spreaders of disease!


If you're questioning vaccines or not vaccinating at all, stop by the Non-Vaccine Support Board that I proudly host: http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-ppnonvaccine


“Never attribute to conspiracy


that which can be explained by greed and incompetence”


But never assume that the greedy and incompetent,


-- through stupidity or willful ignorance --


are not unknowingly part of a deeper conspiracy.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2007
Thu, 08-28-2008 - 3:04pm

** Disclaimer**


I've decided I'm taking on the pro-vax perspective in here, just for the sake of discussion where it lacks.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-05-2008
Thu, 08-28-2008 - 3:22pm

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My research has shown that you could end up with a variant of the disease which is worse than if you had caught the disease w/o being vaccinated. Example - atypical measles. aytypical mumps

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I also have no idea how my children would respond to the vaccines themselves. Could you guarantee me ahead of time that there would be ZERO adverse reactions to the vaccines AND that the vaccines would 100% ensure that my children would not get that disease? BTW, It would be MY judgment that there was an ill effect, not yours, because I don't want to see something new in my kids and hear - it's normal, or unrelated, would have happened anyway, you can't prove it was the vaccine that caused it, etc.

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Would I be able to live with myself if they died from the vaccine????

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I have no control over other people other than to avoid others if I know my children are sick with something. Outside of that, you'd be asking my kids to accept the risk for someone else. If someone is immune compromised, perhaps they should get the vaccines themselves. If that's not possible, perhaps they need to stay at home.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-28-2008
Thu, 08-28-2008 - 3:33pm

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Could you be more specific?

-- Jamie's evil twin
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-05-2008
Thu, 08-28-2008 - 4:22pm

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...........Could you be more specific? Where is your evidence of this claim?

Vaccination 100 Years of Orthodox Research shows that Vaccines Represent a Medical Assault on the Immune System by V. Scheibner Ph.D. page 83

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..........But we do know how the majority of children respond. They have conducted clinical trials documenting their effects, and the effects are minor compared to the disease.

But do you know how MY kids will respond? As far as their effects are minor compared to the disease - please be more specific. I want specific vaccines and diseases and effects. A simple shot of vitamin k at the hospital carries the risk of DEATH as noted on the package insert.

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..............Nothing in medicine is 100%. You must weigh the risks to the benefits, and the benefits outweigh the risks.

You're correct - *I* must weigh the risks and benefits - not you or the dr or the gov or the pharma cos. By saying the benefits outweigh the risks, YOU are making this judgment for me. Based on what? You don't know the health status of my kids, their genetic makeup - nothing. So you really can't say that the benefits outweigh the risk for any kids but your own. IMO

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..........You would have "recall bias", this is why it must actually be proven to be causal by a health care provider.

And the health care provider and pharma cos have $$$$$ as a reason not to admit problems with their cash cows vaccines. They are unwilling to admit harm by their vaccines so death, for instance, gets labeled as SIDS. Or, should a child develop diabetes, as an example, they make the unscientific conclusion that the child would have had it anyway - it's coincidence. That's not science. Why is it that your side can be unscientific but as a mom I cannot be ever???? I know my child - you do not.

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.......I'm afraid it's the other way around. My kids are taking a risk for yours BY vaccinating, and you are reaping the benefits. You get the luxury of worrying about it.

Well, I would say that if you truly believe that your kids are taking a risk for mine - PLEASE DON'T. I didn't ask you to. I would not do the same for you. Sorry, but true. And how I am reaping benefits when you can shed your disease to my kids after vaxing? That's one "benefit" I don't need and didn't ask for.

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