found this site....have an issue already

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
found this site....have an issue already
41
Sat, 04-19-2003 - 10:45am
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/8148/vac.html#higher

Children at Higher Risk of Reacting



Child with prior vaccine reaction

Child who has had a sibling or family member react to a vaccine

A personal or family history of convulsions or neurological disorders, immune system disorders, allergies, eczema, asthma, or allergy to cows milk

Child is ill with anything, including a runny nose, ear infection, diarrhea, etc., or has recovered from an illness within one month prior to vaccination.

Child was born prematurely or with low birth weight.

Child has had cerebral irritation in the neonatal period (some examples include head trauma at birth from difficult delivery, meningitis, high pitched screaming with arching of back, etc.).

Now, my issue is this...my kids have had several vaccinations when having a runny nose. So why did they not have a reaction? Now I admit that its not wise to vax a child who has a fever ANY fever at all. SO that is the parents and drs responsiablity to have the childs temp checked BEFORE getting the vax. I do it!

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/vaccines.htm

The Autism Research Institute of San Diego is now widely known as an active support group for families with autistic children and is one of the more active organizations in this field. Its founding director, Bernard Rimland, Ph.D., has provided the statistics that, in their experience, from 50 to 60% of parents with autistic children believe that their children were damaged by vaccines. In our own office we have seen many autistic children in recent years, and our own experience has been very similar, many parents reporting that deterioration of their children took place following vaccines." Dr. Buttram

Now why is it that I should REALLY trust this? I know of a woman who had her son vaxed he then was labled autistic. Thinking that it was his vaccines, she then decided to NOT vaccinate her daughter. Guess what??? Her daughter is autisitc as well. How can anyone explain this? The woman thought she was doing right by her daughter who ended up the same way as her brother. Seems to me as if autism is really the hereditary issue it always has been. IMHO

Adverse Effects of Vaccines part 2

"I have run against so many histories of little children who had never seen a sick day until they were vaccinated and who, in the several years that have followed, have never seen a well day since. I couldn't put my finger on the disease they have. They just weren't strong. Their resistance was gone. They were perfectly well before they were vaccinated. They have never been well since." William Howard Hay M.D. on June 25th 1937, to The Medical Freedom Society.

OKAYYYY this statement was givin 65 years ago!!! Did anyone stop to think that vaccinations have been revampt since then? I mean seriously, this is another scare tactic IMHO.

In regions in which there is no organized vaccination of the population, general paralysis is rare. It is impossible to deny a connection between vaccination and the encephalitis (brain damage) which follows it."

Journal of the American Medical Association July 3, 1926, p.45

Again I state this is all from many years ago. 77 to be exact. I have YET to see any information about how horriable these vaccinations are in OUR decade. Maybe I am not looking hard enough. LOL Yet I am on a site this is FULLY against vaccinations and all I am seeing is OLD reports.

http://thinktwice.com/faq.htm

First of all, how could your non-vaccinated child be a danger to the vaccinated child? If the vaccines are effective, then the baby should be protected. Actually, it's the vaccinated children who spread disease. Many of the disease outbreaks that we are warned about today, are caused by, and occur in, recently vaccinated children.

Okay this is wrong...My child was only 3 weeks old when she caught pertussis. She and her father. My daughter who was 17months old at the time NEVER got it. Fully vaxed thank you. Now in order for my infant to have gotten pertussis from my older child, my older child would have had a cold, something a cough anything..SHE HAD NOTHING. Now would I not let my kids play with a non vaxed child? Sure, cause I know that my kids are protected. I think people get confused. My childrens ped has NEVER once said that my kids would not be protected or to keep them away from novaxed kids. The issue is my kids are vaxed and I know they are safe from getting these diseases, kids who are not vaxed will get them and spread them to innocent newborns who are not old enough to get vaccinated. Not only that but children who are not vaxed that get these VPDs have to go through hell. So would I want a non vaxed child around my newborn? NOPE...sorry that child is NOT vaxed. Have I learned my lesson on not taking my child out in public before they get their first vax? Yep. Then again I have to worry about what anyone else including my husband or I come incontact with.



Carla,

Mommy to...MariaElena,Lindsey,Jac

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Avatar for lucky30605
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Sat, 04-19-2003 - 2:22pm
I hear ya. There is just nothing recent to support non-vaxing.

I do have to give credit to those who were vocal about the thermisol stuf, though. They now make vaccines without it. And I don't think mercury is used very much anymore, either. I, personally, like folks who question medicine. I just wish the folks out there trying to sell grape seed extract and electronic accupuncture would stop trying to scare everyone with their "all vaccines are bad" stuff. Homeopathy gets on my nerves, too. But THAT is a WHOLE other debate. I just hate it when frightened people get preyed upon by quacks and salesmen.

Lucky

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-15-2003
Sat, 04-19-2003 - 8:27pm
I have done a lot of study the last couple of days. Those who really believe in the connection between the 18 mos. MMR and autism don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, they simply think that parents of children predisposed to autism should be given the choice to immunize at a later date, and not mulitple immunizations administered at the same time. Yes, millions of people are immunized without incident, but I don't think we can discount the many many reports of problems.

Here are some newer studies (2002):

http://www.autismndi.com/immune.htm

Singh VK, Lin SX, Newell E, Nelson C., Abnormal measles-mumps-rubella antibodies and CNS autoimmunity in children with autism. J Biomed Sci 2002 Jul-Aug;9(4):359-64.

Stemming from this evidence, we suggest that an inappropriate antibody response to MMR, specifically the measles component thereof, might be related to pathogenesis of autism.

http://www.autismndi.com/gut.htm

Uhlmann V, Martin CM, Sheils O, Pilkington L, Silva I, Killalea A, Murch SB, Walker-Smith J, Thomson M, Wakefield AJ, O'Leary JJ: Potential viral pathogenic mechanism for new variant inflammatory bowel disease. Mol Pathol 2002 Apr;55(2):84-90

CONCLUSIONS: The data confirm an association between the presence of measles virus and gut pathology in children with developmental disorder.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Mon, 04-21-2003 - 6:15pm
As for the 2 children who both became autistic, I don't know of anyone who denys a genetic component in this condition. I for one do not believe that every case has identical causation. Children who are genetically vulnerable may very well be at higer risk from vaccination, however, which may very well justify not vaccinating them, or doing so selectively.

Look at it this way; becuase this mother decided not to vaccinate one child, at least we have some data from the same family on the same condition in both an vaxed and an unvaxed child. I don't recall seeing how her child not being vaxed harmed it in any way.

As for pertussis, older children and adults can have this condition and not even realize it (it is typically asymptomatic, as opposed to in infants). So your baby could have caught pertussis, and more likely did, from some (fully vaccinated) adult with no symptoms you would recognize as being serious rather than from an unvaccinated, ill child. (who would likely have shown some signs of illness you, as a mom to a newborn, might have noticed had the child come into close contact with yours!). OR, your baby could have gotten pertussis from some fully vaccinated child in whom the vaccine failed.

Of course, imo, it is wise to shelter a newborn for some time whether one intends to vaccinate or not. Precisely because they are more vulnerable to ANY infection and more serious effects from it than older children.

Kimberly

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Tue, 04-22-2003 - 3:28pm
I agree that with a newborn one should stay at home. I did not think anything would happen considering with our first daughter we had taken her out as well when she was only 5days old.

I still do not think IMO that my daughter got pertussis from a vaccinated child. They are DEAD cells. Again JMO!

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Actually I do not know how ANYONE can miss judge pertussis in an adult, I mean I know it has happend but that just tells me that doctors need to learn more. My DH had it as well in fact I knew there was something wrong because my DH NEVER gets sick. I knew that his cough was not right. WHICH is why I kept sending him back to his dr.! Also the reason adults and children over the age of 7 get Pertussis is because it has worn off by age 7. They ( the medical community) feel that children and adults can handle it much better then an infant. Of course they can they have larger airways. Though watching my DH go through it at times was just as hard to watch as my DD, only he could work his way out of a cough and of course she could not. So catching it from a "FULLY VAXED" adult had nothing to do with it. Catching it from an adult who just might have it...yes. Since adults are no longer vaxed for it. I say again, my oldest DD was around her father MORE then my youngest...she was FULLY vaxed. SHE never got the cough EVER. That tells me that vaxing her worked. JMO, which is why I vax MY kids. I know that had MariaElena gotten pertussis she would not have been any better then Lindsey was. I could not have handled two sick babies.

And believe me I know where Chris and Lindsey got the pertussis. I know how that baby girl sounded and I know she had it. NOONE can tell me any different. Seeing as how we were ALL so very close together in the infant department at Walmart There was no way of avoiding it. Though had I known what it sounded like I am sure I would have NEVER gone near the area. Turned out that a school in the same town had a few children go home with it. Just makes me even more sure of it.

God Bless,

Carla

Carla,

Mommy to...MariaElena,Lindsey,Jac

Avatar for catherina
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Thu, 04-24-2003 - 4:06pm
Kimberly,

pertussis is not "asymptomatic" in older children and adults, its just not diagnosed as pertussis regularly, but goes under "nasty bronchitis", or "we had this bad cough all through winter". I have had pertussis at 15 and know many, many people who had pertussis as school children and adults and in most cases 8as in mine) it took weeks to diagnosis, but the cough was there and real ("asymptomatic" - I wish !!)

Catherina

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-29-2003
Thu, 04-24-2003 - 5:53pm
Catherina I totally agree with what you said. As in Lindsey's case she had been coughing since she was 3 weeks old. COUNTLESS ped visits and test. Still it took till she was 5 weeks old to diagonose it. ALONG with my DH. His drs office did not know what he had and in fact continued to say it was severe bronchitis. Yet they put him on Zythromax. Yes I know it is sometimes used for bronchitis at times, but let me tell you how ADIMIT this office was that my DH get in there to see them. Pertussis is just not as easy to diagnose as some think.

God Bless,

Carla

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Sat, 05-17-2003 - 5:16pm
Catherina, sometimes pertussis IS asymtomatic in those past infancy/early childhood. Sometimes, as you point out, it manifests as a cough all winter or bronchitis, neither of which is usually suspected as or diagnosed as pertussis. I recall living in Oregon, and how many winters, one could harbor a cough/chest congestion from November through spring; not severe enough to warrant medical attention, or to disrupt your day to day activities, and EVERYONE seemed to have it. Hardly on a par with the potentially deadly manifestation in the very young, which was my point.

Kimberly

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Sat, 05-17-2003 - 8:30pm
I agree that there are alot of people that have respitory issues all winter long. I myself get bronchitis twice in the season. YET my issue is this...PERTUSSIS is VERY noticable when it gets to that intense coughing. YOu can not mistake this cough. It is SO very different then a bronchitis cough or even a croup cough. I have NEVER in my life heard this kind of cough until that baby at Walmart and then DH and Lindsey.

The other thing that is upsetting about this VPD is that Lindsey is still fighting effects of it. My DH also has issues since having it.

I was just talking with someone last night about how upsetting it was to me that the HEAD of pediatrics of our CHILRENS HOSPITAL here sent my 5 week old home knowing her cough was so bad. I mean she was easily in her 50s you mean to tell me a TEACHING hospital does not have anything on whooping cough to teach with?? As I stated before once the cough gets worse it is VERY hard not to notice.

I still get nervous walking near someone if they are coughing...lol hard to not be.

God Bless,

Carla

Carla,

Mommy to...MariaElena,Lindsey,Jac

Avatar for catherina
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Sun, 05-18-2003 - 5:57am
I think of your poor Lindsey every time the pertussis discussion comes up. I just read that in Germany, 5% of all infants who get pertussis die from it and pertussis still is much more prevalent than anyone cares to think about. I am actually going to contact our national vaccine board (the ones who issue vaccination recommendations in Germany) and ask them whether they are planning to include pertussis in the recommended boosters, now that a dTaP vaccine has been licenced.

Catherina

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Sun, 05-18-2003 - 10:21am
Catherina,

Yes infants can not tolerate this disease really. It makes them so tired they just get worn out. This is why they almost intibated Lindsey twice...THANK GOD she is a strong little girl cause they ended up not doing them. The hardest thing to watch is a baby suffer with this VPD. Personally I would NEVER want to see it again.

I have just found out that I am pregnant and I start a new job Monday...yea I know the irony..lol..but I plan on working unless my OB says I cant...and DH asked me what will I do after I have the baby...I said I have no problem going back to work, but I wont be going back until this baby has their first set of immunization shots. Just can not do it.

Let me know what the board says when you call.

God Bless,

Carla

Carla,

Mommy to...MariaElena,Lindsey,Jac

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