Hi

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-09-2007
Hi
79
Thu, 11-20-2008 - 7:34am

I posted this on another board and wanted to see what reactions (and feathers got ruffled) over here. I'm wondering if there are more anti-vaccinating or more pro-vaccinating women over here...


If you were to talk to grandparents and great-grandparents who had to deal with losing childhood friends to diseases and illnesses that we vaccinate and have under control today, they think everyone who doesn't is c-r-a-z-y for not. It's too bad that it may take hundreds of children dying per year for people to realize that vaccines aren't from the devil.


Also, it has always irked me that those who choose not to vaccinate rely on my kids being vaccinated (and everyone else's kids who are) to keep their succeptible children from becoming seriously sick. I mean if EVERYONE in America stopped vaccinating, hundreds of kids WOULD get sick and WOULD die. Period. There really is no debate there. So yes, it bugs me that MY oh-so-horrible-vaccination on my kids keeps those who aren't safer.

mrsvanoven


 

I'm a vaccinating,

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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-05-2005
In reply to: not_a_princess
Sat, 11-29-2008 - 5:41pm

I'm familiar with vaccine shedding and that is something different than what I had thought you were talking about... I had thought you were making reference to people who were previously vaccinated catching and transmitting the disease much later - asymptomatically. If there is some peer reviewed literature on that, I'd be interested in reading it.

What you are referring to with CP is well documented in the literature. And, I agree totally that it is an issue with this particular vaccine. Most of the time it causes outbreak of non-wild type (vaccine type) virus and the majority of the kids who get it are those who have received NO vaccine previously. The vaccine type virus is not the same virus as the wild type - and is really incapable of creating more than just a nuisance rash and mild fever, if that. Typically, the "ground zero" child has been recently vaccinated, HOWEVER, they almost always show at least mild symptoms...and, the kids who DO get the non-wildtype illness also typically have VERY mild CP. But, for once we agree, lol, the CP thing IS an issue regardless of what you think about vaccines. Luckily, it doesn't happen really often, but often enough to be a problem regardless. It does create lasting immunity though..... And, it likely also acts as a boost to those who had CP before or who were vaccinated previously with good uptake. While it is a different strain of virus, it is similar enough that it also creates an immune response to the wild-type strains of CP.


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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-05-2005
In reply to: not_a_princess
Sat, 11-29-2008 - 5:44pm

Perhaps I am just reading too much into your posts.

I am quite aware of the whole environmental issues and the earth, etc. I'm sure you know about the superfund sites....astonishing.

Another really good book if you are interested in stuff like that is Omnivore's Dilemma. Very interesting read....made me never want to eat anything from the grocery store again though!


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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-05-2005
In reply to: not_a_princess
Sat, 11-29-2008 - 6:03pm

Interesting. I hadn't seen that article. I'll have to do some more reading on this.

In reading that particular article, sounds like it warrants more investigation but that this isn't likely a huge issue, and it isn't established that transmission could occur from such. And, of note this is from a study done on vaccine in France - I don't think we use the same strain here, but I could be wrong - I'd have to ask someone or look it up to know for sure.

Thanks for posting though - I'll be looking more to see if there have been more recent articles when I get some more time. (I did just read the full text version of this one, BTW).

One question though - it seems that often on here studies are always questioned and thought to be of no use if they are pro-vaccine articles. For instance, there is a body of work that disproves a variety of claims often made on here that are routinely discarded for some reason as valid. So, if this one passes the test then what makes this one valid while the others are not considered valid? Do you know who funds the author's work? Just curious what the difference is between a study that would be considered "good" by the other side and one that wasn't.

Thanks again,
Amy


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iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2007
In reply to: not_a_princess
Sat, 11-29-2008 - 7:57pm

<<>>


I don't really take a stance on what any given study proves, or disproves (usually only have an outspoken word or two) - but your observations are very valid, and I agree with all of them.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-05-2005
In reply to: not_a_princess
Sat, 11-29-2008 - 8:42pm

"My contention is merely that the unnatural introduction of disease has consequence, ecological and otherwise."

I agree. Vaccines have changed the epidemiology of disease - for better or worse depending on your viewpoint. However, they are here now and one must make decisions based on the reality of the disease course as it is impacted by vaccines.


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iVillage Member
Registered: 12-14-2005
In reply to: not_a_princess
Sat, 11-29-2008 - 8:48pm

"It's called shedding and it appears more often than people realise. For example there was an outbreak of CP at my ds's school 2 years ago. The culprit was a recently vaccinated child who went into school and shed the virus from the vaccine. Granted this isn't the "peer reviewed literature" you crave but it happened and the health department in Cherokee County, GA confirmed it, as the strain of CP was vaccine strain and NOT the wild strain, thus it had to stem from a freshly vaccinated child. Oh and most of the children who became ill were all supposedly vaccinated themselves."

Dee, same thing happened my DD's daycare twice - not peer-reviewed but reviewed by "Toronto Public Health" who also confirmed it was the CP strain from the vaccination infecting the vaccinated children. At the time of the first outbreak my DD had not had the CP vaccination and did not get CP, by the second outbreak she was vaccinated (how I regret that now).

Some of the vaccinated children had CP (and were spreading it) but were barely showing symptoms of it - as in very very few pox on their bodies. Public Health came in and inspected bodies etc as a result and children were sent for testing based on what they found.






iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2007
In reply to: not_a_princess
Sat, 11-29-2008 - 11:07pm

<<>>


Exactly.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-28-2007
In reply to: not_a_princess
Sat, 11-29-2008 - 11:58pm

<<>>

Excellent point. Braves the question then, which vaccines and why? There is a reason we don't routinely vaccinate against Small pox (save military, certain health care professionals, etc; it's effectively eradicated here. When I was a camp counselor in the mid '90's only the lifeguards were expected to receive the Hep B series; now it's administered at birth.

Is Gardisil necessary for the purity ring, Jonas Bros following teen who is looking at seminary?

ie: at what point do we decide "this is really important and this is not?"

To me it appears it's an all or nothing world out there; you take what the cdc/aap swears by or nothing at all!

Seriously, why would someone need a diphtheria shot who lives with good plumbing, good sanitation and clean water in the 1st world?

Food for thought.

-Dee

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-05-2005
In reply to: not_a_princess
Sun, 11-30-2008 - 12:02am

"Part of the bigger picture is: who's right? Does it matter?"

Well, I think someone is at least partially right, lol. And yes, it does matter because if one of us is wrong, then we look for other reasons for the issues claimed to be caused by vaccines, if the other is wrong, well, that is catastrophic considering the impact of disease (which we will then have no tools to combat as effectively) and the impact on the health of millions of people who have received vaccine who may have been harmed.... The reality of "what if I am wrong" isn't lost on me, nor is it some of the "vaccine big dogs" out there either. People lose sleep over this. Don't ever think that these people (I'm talking researchers and doctors, like Paul Offit) enter into the decision to support the pro-vaccine position lightly. But, at the end of the day I have to side with science and hope science continues to uphold what it has found true to date...and if it doesn't, then I'll still side with science, even if that means changing my position on vaccines. I don't think that'll happen....I hope it won't.

And, if I can say that the possibility exists that I may be wrong I hope others on here can say the same - perhaps someone else is wrong - then there is a possibility that all this research that says vaccines are safe may be right. And, it isn't black and white - we are talking relative safety and weighing risks and benefits.

The issue remains there are two polar positions and I believe somewhere in between the truth doth lie - likely one side being more "right" then the other, but neither completely correct. I like to think that I'm on the "righter" side of the argument, lol.

And, on the gardening blog - thanks. I started it this summer and never did get back to it again! I had big plans to track stuff and send it out to friends and family and well, life just got in the way. I never did post any of the pictures or keep track of how we were shifting our "footprint" because of what we grew out back. Oh well, lol, maybe next year! We have plans to expand our garden this year...my husband got crazy with the garlic this fall - so we are going to HAVE to build some more boxes if we are to eat anything else, lol.

Amy


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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-08-2008
In reply to: not_a_princess
Sun, 11-30-2008 - 2:56am

So magpie---


How can you tell if other children are vaccinated or not?

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