Looking for info

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-12-2008
Looking for info
44
Tue, 02-24-2009 - 12:07am
Hi I have never been on any of these debate boards before because I don't like to debate things. I am looking for info and I want to get all info I can by Thursday. I should start with telling you my story. I have a wonderful little girl on December 23. She was born at 37 weeks. She had no problems so the next day they sent us home. She did get the Hep B vaccine before coming home. About 20 minutes after coming home she stopped breathing and her heart stopped. My mother-in-law preformed CPR on her and she started breathing again. She was in the hospital for about a week. They did tons of tests and we left with them telling us that it was SIDS that we caught. WE are not totally satisfied with this answer so we where doing research on our own. We found this website that talked about how kids who went through the same thing as our daughter where latter found to have problems with their brains. We have not got her brain checked yet. WE are going to make an appointment to get this done on her 2 month appointment. Well anyways another thing we found with all this research is some scary things with the vaccine that she has received. We are now trying to figure out the truth behind these vaccines before her next appointment on Friday. She is due for more of the vaccines and we are now not sure if we want her to have them. That is why I came here. I am looking for any and all websites on vaccines. I would like both sides to this argument. I thought that everyone here would be able to help me since you can not argue your side without having facts. Thank you for your help.
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My little snuggle bunny Noelle Marie Corrina
Born December 23 2008
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My little angel Jason Edward Joseph
Born and Died January 6 2008

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Events in Noelle's life









iVillage Member
Registered: 08-20-2007
Fri, 02-27-2009 - 1:06am

"If only someone would set-up that website with thousands of parent's testifying about how their non-vaccinated baby died of SIDS or how their non-vaccinated child had autism...all this could be put to rest once and for all! But still, here we are..."


It wouldn't happen though because how many people are vaccinated against non vaccinated?


How sure is anyone that the vaccine was the cause? How sure is anyone that even if they did not get that vaccination that there child would still of gotten autism? This is where i get a bit iffy about people doing there own research because some people may google symptoms and automatically assume that it was the cause when for all we know it may not of been. Do you get what i mean??


In my opinion unless everyone stops vaccinating and the vaccinated die out we will not know a true answer.

girls ttcamangelttc09 babydustmanPhotobucket
girls
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-17-2005
Fri, 02-27-2009 - 1:35am

Jackie,

There are plenty of nonvaccinated children. There are plenty of nonvaccinated adults. There are almost as many "mysteries" among vaccinated military personnel as there are in the civilian population of young children.

You wonder why people are not outraged and you wonder why you don't hear about it?

Politics, Media Control and a population that is --- quite frankly --- dumbed down. Because if you don't take the time to research an issue yourself with an open mind then frankly, you've given in and will believe what you hear without ever questioning it.

It's quite simple. You find me a few thousand UNvaccinated (totally without vaccines) kids with Autism and I'll be convinced to believe the pro-vax side. Likewise, find as many "SIDS" deaths that occurred prior to any vaccine and I'll shut up forever!

Ever heard the term "sheeple"? If you don't want to be one, get the facts. Not just about vaccines but many things you've been led to believe may be untrue. (You as in the general population.)

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-10-2008
Fri, 02-27-2009 - 12:39pm

I'm not sure the completely unvaccinated population in the US is actually high enough to provide "a few thousand unvaccinated kids with autism." The latest estimate that I saw for the number of completely unvaccinated children in the US was ~17,000. I got this number from a Pediatrics article from 2004. No doubt it has increased since then, but probably not all that much. Do you happen to have a more recent or more accurate estimate? Given that number, even if we assume that the rate of autism is the same for the nonvax'ed and fully vax'ed, that gives only a total of ~114 potential cases of autism given the 1/150 autism rate in the US. The SIDS rate is even lower.

Now, if you're looking for demonstration of some cases of autism in the completely unvaccinated population, you just need to look to the Generation Rescue phone study from 2007. http://www.generationrescue.org/pdf/survey.pdf Not the thousands you're looking for, but a good representation nonetheless. Since survey is more than a year old, I assume the merits of it have likely been debated to death already, so I won't go there.

~Jenifer


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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-09-2008
Fri, 02-27-2009 - 1:00pm

I do have to agree with some of the below.


It is true there is more vacc'd than unvacc'd (what that number is would be impossible to tell given that those statistics are those reported, and given that states have the option to opt in or out of registries, it's a clear unknown). My guess is however that the vacc'd far outweigh the unvacc'd. (again, it's just a guess but I'm sure probably a good one). Numerous reasons would be given for that and no doubt all have merit.


IMPO, I can't say anyone is sure about vaccines being the cause (as in only), minus those that have been awarded already (which tells me the evidence was more in their favor). I have my personal beliefs that they do, but, it's not supported as the main cause via any authority that would count. Many factors could lead to whatever ailment - the question is, what risks can one reduce? (assuming they choose to, or know to do so). We can't keep our children from every toxic exposure, it's impossible. IMHO however, in knowing if I vaccinated my children I had to "take them in"to do such, that to me would be, in my eyes, a purposeful trip of doing just such thing.


Maybe it's just coincidence that at ages 2 and 3 there is no autism, or asthma, or allergies, or biopolar, etc.. (intresting giving that there's a family history of it, so I think not).


People are going to however die out, vaccinated or not, that's just a fact of life.


Rands

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-02-2009
Fri, 02-27-2009 - 1:36pm

if unvaxed kids are 1%, and guessing that there are about 3 million births a year, the number of unvaxed children under the age of 10 would be about 300,000. The Home First medical practice in Chicago said that they had 30,000 unvaccinated children just in their practice. Ashland Oregon apparently has as many as 60% unvaxed in some of their public schools. I worked at a private school where I would guess that at least a quarter of the students were unvaccinated.


I think there are probably a fair number at this point.

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-09-2008
Fri, 02-27-2009 - 1:57pm
Oh sure - I'm not arguing that point by any means - I'm just saying that the vacc'd outnumber the unvacc'd. I'm with ya sister, I don't vacc my kids and won't - but I know I'm in the minority - and I'm Okay with that.
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Rands

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-09-2007
Fri, 02-27-2009 - 2:43pm
Are you all talking about kids only when it comes to vax vs. unvaxd? Because if you include the generations that were before vaccines then I'd think the numbers are more even than this discussion is giving credit to. Along those lines, if vaccines are becoming more widely used then isn't the correlation between rises in autism something to be given fair thought to? I'd like to see how many cases of autism there were in the generations that didn't get any childhood vaccinations. (or very few)
Photobucket Thanks to Andie for my siggy!



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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-17-2005
Fri, 02-27-2009 - 2:57pm
I never knew how many parents were against vaccines until my daughter got the chickenpox. I was shocked, I really was.
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-17-2005
Fri, 02-27-2009 - 3:02pm

Even my generation got 3-5 vaccines. I'm 44.

My Mom got a lot because she used to be an Emergency Medical Tech. My Dad got a lot of vaccines because he was in the Army. Even my grandparents generation got vaccines. I remember getting a cube of sugar to put in my mouth, I don't remember what exactly it was for - but something to do with vaccines.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-10-2008
Fri, 02-27-2009 - 4:06pm

I don't think that looking at previous generations is necessarily a fair comparison - there are too many variables. There are lots of differences between the way we live today vs. before vaccines that you can't control for: tv/cell phone used, nutrition, pollution, etc. Not that I necessarily think the above variables are factors, but how can you rule them out logically? Most importantly though, the way in which autism (or SIDS for that matter) is diagnosed has changed dramatically.

As for the size of the completely unvaccinated population - I did a quick search and it looks like there are about 4 million births per year. I pulled the CDC stats for vaccine coverage:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/stats-surv/imz-coverage.htm#chart

For 2007 (most recent data), I think its fair to assume an absolute max of ~5% unvaccinated from these numbers. I just looked at the coverage for 24month olds and found the largest coverage percent by vaccine series (95.0). But this 5% would include some kids who started, but didn't complete the series, got other vaccines but not this one, or who are delaying vaccines. So I think that the absolute maximum estimate of 5% is probably quite generous for school aged children, and likely the actual number quite a bit lower. Same would apply to vaccine exemptions in schools.

Even using the absolute max of 5%, that would be about 2.45 million unvaccinated, or it could be as low as 147,000 using the percentage estimate in the Pediatrics article. This of course, doesn't include those who do selective or delayed vaccinations. But at the very least, I think it gives an indication of why controlled studies of completely unvaccinated vs completely vaccinated children would be difficult to do.

~Jenifer


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