New to board, exploring options, help

Avatar for jaelove
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-03-2003
New to board, exploring options, help
9
Wed, 02-10-2010 - 6:41pm

Okay, I already have 3 kids that have followed whatever vaccination schedule the pediatrician's office advised.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-14-2005
Thu, 02-18-2010 - 2:50pm

Hi Jae,

Welcome to the board. I concur with lovemymunkaman (Charlotte's) suggestions for starting your research and wish you the best in coming the right decision for your family.






iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2007
Fri, 02-12-2010 - 11:21pm

I'd already read this post, thanks for sharing it again for people that haven't.

<<< I am not sure what you really want from this "study" you continually ask for from me.>>>

Really? You're the one making the assertions related to safety and I'm asking you for your evidence. You keep giving me the same sources that I have already read and I am not convinced by your evidence, sorry.

<<>>

Let me see if I can be crystal clear.

* You make claims that the vaccine schedule, as it is administered is perfectly safe and safer than the disease itself. There are no data to determine adverse event prevalence as the schedule is currently structured and administered nation-wide. There isn't a single study (even in animals) that addresses the entire US schedule in its entirety, nor are there any data about the possible synergistic effects of giving 7 different vaccines in a single visit. There just isn't Jon, and you would be a lot more credible if you would simply concede that we are assuming that absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

* Challenge studies have repeatedly shown that antibody levels do not equate to "immunity" (though many diseases do have a protective titer established, measuring the sera after an animal stops showing symptoms doesn't mean they can't also spread disease...subclinical infections are not prejudiced). You cannot state, with any sort of confidence, that vaccination status will determine who will and who will not actually respond as intended and resist infection from the disease causing agent. Obviously, circulating antibodies for known infectious threats are a good thing. Likewise, if an organism is busy circulating those antibodies - then they have demonstrably less resources to address any novel pathogen that might also circulate concomitantly. Vaccine failures can, and do, occur. The answer is not continual vaccination until we completely lose count of how many our children under 2 are getting. Of course some vaccines work - where have I said they haven't? Some vaccines carry their own issues for the herd.

If the overall goal is actual community immunity, the only way to accomplish sufficient protection is to give people options and stop being irrational about communicable disease. Reasonable people can determine when a vaccine is necessary, and will choose when to vaccinate based on their own circumstances.

The issue to them (and obviously, only them), is whether there is a safer way to individually vaccinate to reduce the risk of adverse events. In order to quantify the risks, you first have to admit that they not only happen, but that we've done a crappy job monitoring them since the late 80's and you also have to be in favor of a system that captures the events systematically. And above all, you then need to hold people that administer vaccines accountable for guidance and reporting as it relates to this medical procedure.

<<>>

I typically only lurk there but have chimed in occasionally. I have, however posted it on ScienceBlogs several times. And yes, even on Orac's blog. You know what I got? Crickets. Then ad hominems. Then conspiracy mongering. Then disease promotion mongering. Then more ad hominems. Start. Cycle. Over. Again.

We do agree on something though, the Sandman post was great.

Sorry to see you go...

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-11-2010
Fri, 02-12-2010 - 11:37am

Jamie, I am not sure what you really want from this "study" you continually ask for from me.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-09-2008
Fri, 02-12-2010 - 7:13am
Jae, First, congratulations on your new arrival. They sure are a blessing. Second, what state do you reside in? Options may vary, so that would be the first place to start is knowing where you reside.

Rands


Rands

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-21-2010
Thu, 02-11-2010 - 9:21pm
Jae, I am so sorry to have high-jacked your post! Please start a new thread with any new questions you have. Start as many as you want :) It is overwhelming, it is...and both sides of this issue knows just how overwhelming it is.
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2007
Thu, 02-11-2010 - 12:13pm

Jon,

Take the high road. Why do you think that continuing to insult people is working?

Obviously Dana's been reported as well since she's under a new screen name. How about we all grow up a little bit?

Jamie

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-11-2010
Thu, 02-11-2010 - 10:17am

I will not be here to offer some science based balance., since I think Dana is referring to me, although I am still waiting on my check from Merck.


":) And remember there's pharmashills out there who's only mission is to confuse you and make it even more difficult for you to learn. We have one here...and we love him being here, gives us something to talk about!"


I think that should give you an indication as to what is unbiased and what is not.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-21-2010
Thu, 02-11-2010 - 12:47am

"but is there any place where I could read unbiased pros and cons to weigh my options?"

Here :)

On this board you can find links to both sides of the issue, the non vax side has much more to offer by the way of peer-reviewed science but the other side pretends to have such proof too. When you ask for the proof, the request is often ignored. Just read and you can see the patterns emerge. Then you will understand what I mean.

Miller's book is my favorite but the others mentioned in the above post are also very helpful.

Most helpful is understanding that the papers you are handed at the doctors office read much more like advertisements, and leave out a lot of what doesn't fit the cause...it all depends on which state you are in.

For the real scoop on what can go wrong read the package inserts:
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM093833

Understanding that many of the employees at the WHO, CDC, FDA and AAP are corrupt and each has his/her own conflicts of interest - that in itself is overwhelming, but it's necessary if you are to see the truth. Some people are very afraid to speak out and some just stay quite to keep their jobs. The conflicts of interest are despicable. It will take a lot of boring reading to get a full understanding of just how far it goes. That is the reason why I like Millers book the best, it puts it all in perspective, or it did for me. I already had some experience from my childhood that made things crystal clear for me before I learned the truth about those who we are supposed to be able to trust - so you might could say I'm a little biased.

Its also interesting to read the debate between Hannah Poling's Dad and the rest. Just do a search on this website for "Hannah Poling" and you will find arguments against his own profession. I find the letters written by Mr. Poling to be very helpful in seeing the truth.

Understanding VAERS and its limitations can be helpful for when your doctor uses VAERS data and pretends it's the gospel:

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Safety/MedWatch/UCM168497.pdf

Good luck with your labor and delivery. Congratulations on the new baby. Good luck with your doctor, I hope you have an open minded one, some will kick you out of their practice if you give them any flack about vaccines.

Also - welcome to the board! There are a few ladies here who can help you learn this stuff but I gotta warn ya, it won't be as quick and painless as you want it to be. It is overwhelming, but with a lot of reading it does become easier. :) And remember there's pharmashills out there who's only mission is to confuse you and make it even more difficult for you to learn. We have one here...and we love him being here, gives us something to talk about!

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-16-2009
Wed, 02-10-2010 - 6:59pm

Hello. I would suggest looking at this thread. http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-ppvaccinedb/?msg=4252.2

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