New to non-vax stuff

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-13-2007
New to non-vax stuff
36
Fri, 01-08-2010 - 10:22pm

I need Vax help.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-06-2009
Wed, 01-13-2010 - 11:43am

Jamie,


I won't even go into your butchering of my stated position - suffice to say that your "interpretation" is so incorrect as to only reflect your own fearful delusions.


In regards to your position, you make statements which border on wishful thinking, incomplete understanding of science and medicine

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2007
Wed, 01-13-2010 - 1:16pm

suffice to say that your "interpretation" is so incorrect as to only reflect your own fearful delusions.


Sarcasm has a way of irritating people.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-17-2005
Wed, 01-13-2010 - 9:22pm

"Rands, Dana and Jamie"

He keeps bringing up this "fear" BS --- WHERE is he getting this from??? Have y'all been writing about being afraid? And exactly what are we afraid of again (I forget)?

Not just fear either - but "overwhelming fear"...

I didn't want to come here tonight because I don't have time to debate but I'm so glad I came here anyway. Nothing like a hearty laugh to change a bad mood!

You're so much fun Jon! I just wish you could stop repeating yourself. You KNOW we'll ask for proof and you KNOW you have none so why repeat yourself? Is that how you make yourself believe your own lies? 'Cause I believe that you believe them.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-17-2005
Wed, 01-13-2010 - 9:47pm

He's trying to scare you, that's all.

"You need to read the state code and consult with your practitioner."

My kid went to a private school one year, I had no problems at all with my partially vaccinated child. Except the principal did tell me that I skipped the most important one...the P in the DPT. My kid got the D and T but the Pertussis portion, I was convinced at that time, is what caused my brother's immediate seizures and life long autism. I was convinced because several doctors told me and my parents that it was the Pertussis portion of the DPT that caused the brain damage.

At least my scare tactics don't require a crystal ball like Jon's does! 'Doesn't require lies either. You see, my proof is in the form of a little boy who was buried way too soon, thanks to lifelong pharmaceuticals. And BTW, those pharmaceuticals never worked, nor did they heal him. Unlike the stories parents are telling today - EVERY DAY - about how non-pharma methods are working AND healing. Pharmaceuticals caused his brain damage, and then my parents were brainwashed into drugging him every day until his heart had FINALLY had all it could stand!

I'll take a bunch of SELF LIMITING diseases ANY day - over the lifelong demands of autism. If given the chance, most people would.

Bottom line is, we've experienced NO limitations or restrictions because of our choices. NONE. And its very likely that you won't either.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-06-2009
Thu, 01-14-2010 - 5:05pm

Jamie,


You claim to be responsible for you and your own - then why are we arguing?


BTW - I looked at the four studies you claim support the additional research.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2007
Fri, 01-15-2010 - 9:34am

Jon,

We're arguing? Hadn't realized.

Those are just bookmarks from a few years ago. The one you've snipped was published AFTER the CDC published a study that addressed concerns over chicken source contamination in the MMR. No harm "observed".

Since humans are exposed to ALV (avian leukosis virus) fairly regularly, it's certainly noteworthy that the parent virus has the ability to insert itself into the genome and cause the proliferation of cancerous cells.

Since mycoplasma lacks a cell wall, antibiotics have shown to be a bit useless. They are readily able to infect vaccine cell lines, and their physiology allows them to change under certain circumstances. Mycoplasmas have shown the ability to alter cellular metabolism and alter host DNA. During the thimerosal generation, one study showed that they infected 39% of the cell lines tested.

Since viral vaccines must be fed, or they will die... and we use calf serum to do it, BBVD is also of concern. The final vaccine product itself can become diseased via contamination and interfere with manufacture, and if you don't require adequate screening for this kind of contamination - you can end up with a particularly virulent vaccine. A symposium from 2006 showed we had difficulty detecting this virus in cattle, let alone sera. Despite efforts for testing, as recent as 2001 bovine pestiviruses were detected in human vaccines

Quote: Live virus vaccines for human use, 29 monovalent vaccines against measles, mumps, rubella or polio, eight polyvalent vaccines against measles-mumps-rubella and one bacterial polyvalent vaccine against Streptococcus pneumoniae, were tested by reverse transcriptase-nested PCR for the presence of petivirus or pestivirus RNA. Twenty-four samples were selected from European manufacturers, ten were from U.S.A. and four from Japan. Five (13.1%) out of 38 tested samples were positive for pestivirus RNA. Three vaccines (rubella and two measles) were from Europe and two (mumps and rubella) from Japan. The 5'-untranslated genomic region of the contaminant pestivirus RNA were amplified by reverse transcription-PCR and sequenced. Analyses based on primary nucleotide sequence homology and on secondary structures, characteristic to genotypes, revealed that the cDNA sequences belonged to bovine viral diarrhea virus (BVDV). A cDNA sequence, detected from one measles sample, belonged to BVDV-1b genotype. Pestiviral cDNA detected from the Japanese mumps and rubella vaccine samples, belonged to the BVDV genotypes 1a and 1c, respectively. Analysis on two cDNA sequences detected from measles and rubella vaccine samples from Europe showed their appurtenance to a new genotype, BVDV-1d. These findings indicate that contamination by animal pestivirus may occur in biological products for human use."

The two words that irritate me the most in this conclusion... are "new" and "genotype". Nothing like jacking around with Mother Nature and getting on her bad side.

Nobody is cheerleading for 100%. I'd just like a little bit of reality please. If that's too much for you to give me, then put me on ignore and I'll do the same.

Jamie

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-06-2009
Fri, 01-15-2010 - 11:46am

Huh.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2007
Fri, 01-15-2010 - 12:26pm

I'm extrapolating as is practical or previously demonstrated. I've not followed up in some time to see the current state of affairs, so a number of studies I have bookmarked are 10 years or older. So, to be fair, I should probably follow up on some of the issues that I first uncovered that created pause for me. They could very well be absolved and my skepticism as it relates to cross contamination unfounded.

I can only partially agree as it relates to perceived reality in the system. It is heavily biased, and in some cases borders on propaganda. I'm glad you are continuing to say that vaccines are not 100% safe and effective. The problem, is that oftentimes you construct your sentences as if to imply it - then when called on it, you do an about face then criticize your opponent for asking for something impossible or engaging in rhetorical arguments. Your insinuation that the anti-vax camp uses this as a soapbox to circulate said rhetorical arguments... I have seen that. There is no need to sensationalize the issue.

I am trying to illustrate issues with production and protocol that fuel the decisions for those that feel there is a safer WAY to vaccinate. I have a tendency to feel that children under the age of two are more susceptible to a variety of issues simply due to the critical stages of development undergone in the first 24 months. Physiologically, this viewpoint is substantiated.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-09-2008
Fri, 01-15-2010 - 2:09pm

I believe where this becomes an issue for those that don't vacc are blanket statements that are made. Agree - nothing stated about 100% anything. What however is stated (usually) to one that doesn't know better or doesn't read for themselves is: "the(this) vaccine(s) is perfectly safe and very effective".

Rands

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-10-2004
Tue, 01-19-2010 - 11:39pm

wow you enjoy scare tactic don't you.

Most people that don't vaccinate don't care one way or another about herd immunity, we just aren't scared of our children getting sick and we educate ourselves on how to take care of them if they do. It's a pretty simple strategy my mother, grandmother and great grandmother all seemed to have followed the plan without complications as have I. Herd immunity never even crossed my mind when making the decision, in fact I didn't even hear the term until long after I made the decision and it was from a very pro vaccine person not an anti one, interestingly enough.

As for not being admitted to a private daycare based on vaccine status well that was misleading at best.

First many states have specific laws preventing any childcare place from discriminating against a child, by declining them care, based on a medical issue. Vaccination status is a medical issue.

Second it is a rare childcare place that is truly private. If they accept any type of federal government money then they are not allowed to discriminate based on medical status per federal rules. These monies include food reimbursement programs, social service childcare contracts, grants and so many other forms. A place may call itself private but when it comes down to it few really are so there are usually plenty of others to go to if one is being terribly anal and is really private.