Robbed of my choice

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Robbed of my choice
53
Tue, 08-26-2003 - 10:32am
I just found out that 3 children in my 9 month old DS's daycare have the chickenpox. Since Ethan is just 9 months he hasn't been vaccinated. Now I know some say, "It is just chickenpox." And that is indeed true. But the sad fact is, this mother, by not vaccinating her children, stole my right to make the decision for myself. And now I have to track her down and find out if her children have been vaccinated at all. (There is a side bar here that the daycare provider lied to me and told me all the children had been vaccinated when she actually did not know.)

If you decide not to vaccinate your children then that is your choice. I hope it is an informed one and you have considered the risks and benefits carefully. But I expect to be given the same right to choose. To allow an un-vaccinated child who you KNEW was exposed to chickenpox to play with a 9 month old is irresponsible. This mother stole my right to decide whether my DS would be vaccinated for chickenpox.

Add to this fact that there is another infant in the daycare with severe asthma, eczema, and other allergies. She is at greater risk of developing severe reactions to the disease. Now this other mother and I must wait and watch to see if our children develop chickenpox.

Children can be exposed, and then contagious to others, to chickenpox, rubella or the measles without any symptoms. The first warning signs are the fevers and rashes. So I never knew these children were ill until last night when they broke out in a rash. And if they, god forbid, had contracted measles or rublella? I still wouldn't know until it was too late.

Was I wrong in not demanding to see shot records? I guess so. But the mother of these children deprived me of my rights as a parent. Her decision placed countless other children in jeapordy. How is that fair?

-Amy

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Avatar for suschi
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Tue, 08-26-2003 - 10:40am
And will your tune change should it be determined that a recently VACCINATED child started this outbreak? What will the title of your post be then?

"The researchers sourced the outbreak to a 4-year-old child who had been vaccinated for chickenpox 3 years prior to contracting the illness.

The child infected about half of his classmates who had no prior history of chickenpox infection. At the time of the outbreak, roughly 73% of kids old enough for chickenpox vaccine had received it, the report indicates."

http://www.testfoundation.org/chickenpoxoutbreak.htm

You know, once upon a time (and I believe the vaccine insert still states this is so)

chickenpox was considered a mild, BENIGN infection in MOST. Before 1995, babies weren't even vaccinated for it.

Christine

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Tue, 08-26-2003 - 10:51am
No my tone won't change - because you missed the point. The mother of these children knew her children had been exposed and not vaccinated and she still allowed them to come to daycare without warning any other parents.

Have you ever seen a 3 week old with the chickenpox? A 3 month old with rubella? A 9 month old with the measles?

My mother has. I had all three diseases as a child because we lived in a foreign country where vaccination wasn't as common and even brief contacts with other children exposed me. I now have partial hearing loss, vision loss, an irregular heartbeat. I wanted to avoid this for my son. I made the decision even after seeing the effects of autism on young children who visit the congressional office I work in. I made the decision for myself. You made the decision for yourself. If the tables were turned and your child was forced to have a vaccine, how would you feel?

Again, I am not attacking your right to not vaccinate. What I am angry about is that percentage of the population who choose not to vaccinate and then are not responsible enough about the possible consequences, ie unintended transmission of potential fatal diseases. If you knew your child had been exposed to a contagious illness- would you let your child play with and interact with other children?

-Amy

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Tue, 08-26-2003 - 11:24am
I believe every daycare and school should be required to disclose whether there are children who are unvaccinated in attendance, and which of those diseases they are not vaccinated for. Privacy can be retained by withholding names, but I agree 10000000% that ALL parents should have CHOICE.


Edited 8/26/2003 11:28:29 AM ET by cl-mferkul
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-12-2003
Tue, 08-26-2003 - 12:21pm
Now, maybe I have this backwards, but it seems to me that it's more likely that the UNVACCINATED child is more at risk from the VACCINATED child than the other way around. After all, if the vaccinated child were exposed to chicken pox, they are still carrying it just as any unvaxed child would. The difference is they will (assuming the vaccine works as it should) remain asymptomatic, but still be contagious, whereas the unvaxed child would eventually develop symptoms.

I fail to see the logic that it's the unvaccinated kids who are spreading the illnesses. It's the vaccinated kids who are asymptomatic.

Lori

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Tue, 08-26-2003 - 1:44pm
Vaccinated children do not spread contagious illnesses. Children who have had chickenpox (or as in Atlanta 10 years ago, the measles) after being vaccinated have been re-infected after their immunity has worn off. Yes, after contracting a disease you carry pieces of the genetic code of that diseasse in your body for the rest of your life. But, those pieces of gentic code (RNA) do not constitute the whole virus and cannot cause illness. Otherwise we would all give diseases to our children the moment they were born. So if you are vaccinated against say, polio, you can't give it to an unvaccinated person.

So yes, the un-vaccinated and infected children were the cause of the infection.

-Amy

Avatar for catherina
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Tue, 08-26-2003 - 2:15pm
actually, Amy, the varicella vaccine is a live viral vaccine, so the whole thing is there. However, the children are only contagious if the vaccinee develops chicken pox or shingles from the vaccine, which is very rare (1 case report in the medical literature).

My son caught CP when he was 6 months old - CP is not on the rouitne vaccination schedule in Germany, so basically every child got CP. One little playmate of my son was hospitalized for a week for seizures. My son (although full term and fully nursed by his immune mom) had a moderate case (many many spots in delicate places, but no fever), but I have seen bad cases.

*HUGS* I can understand that you are angry. I hope your baby will have a very mild infection...

Catherina

PS my big girl was vaccinated against CP (at age 4 in Germany - the ped had to order the vaccine for us) and never caught the CP from her brother

Avatar for tiggernminnie
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 08-26-2003 - 2:42pm
I think you misunderstood the post....

Vaccinated children don't necessarily carry a virus BECAUSE they have been vaccinated (ie child A was vaxed w/ varicella and two years later can infect child B although it may the be case with a few live virus vaxes). I think the point they are making is that Child A...although vaxed against chicken pox can be exposed to Child M that has Chicken Pox (for whatever reason) and even though Child A may not get Chicken Pox they can be a "carrier" of the virus and infect Child B.

I agree sending a child that has been exposed to a virus or any other type of contagious illness to school is not being a responsible parent. I DO NOT agree that vax records should be made public. In the case of an outbreak of a disease/virus that has a vaccine available the NON vaccinated children stay home until the incubation period is over....why would anyone other than parents need to know their vax status. IF one of those NON vaccinated children came down with the disease/virus then I can see a letter being sent home to classmates and others that could have come into contact w/ him or her. But still their vax status is a non issue at that point.

A NON vaxed child is not a threat to your child if the disease/virus is not present. If it did become present it is JUST as likely (sometimes more so) that a vaxed child was the one that introduced it to the group than a NON vaxed child. There are many reports...even on CDC's own website of huge breakouts of pertussis in VACCINATED populations. There was a breakout here in the Philadephia area just last year.

Should you be upset about how your daughter's school handled this? Of course!! I would want heads on a platter. But don't assume that the incidences were due to Non vaccinated children because the research shows that more often than not it's the vaccinated ones that are getting sick.

HTH

Christine

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Tue, 08-26-2003 - 3:00pm
A non-vaxed child is a danger to my child if they have been or are at greater risk of being exposed to contagious illnesses.

Can you show me medically documented proof of a vaccinated child being a "carrier" of a disease? I don't understand ( and I admit I'm knew to this debate) your differentiation between a child having a live vaccine present in their body not causing the disease in others, but that they can somehow "carry" the virus from one child to the other. I completely understand that vaccinated children can have waning immunity. As stated before, I lived in the Atlanta area during an outbreak of measles. At the time it was determined that 15-18 year olds were contracting the disease because their immunity had worn off. (I was immune because I had the full blown disease as an infant) Infected children were passing the disease to children who either had not been vaccinated or had similar waning immunity or non-functioning immune systems. In classrooms where children were completely vaccinated and had full immunity (as established by a simple blood test) no one caught the disease OR took it home to younger siblings. I was definitely exposed to the measles during this time, as was my younger brother (who had the MMR vaccine). And yet neither of us carried it home to the young children we babysat every afternoon- who had not yet had their MMR vaccines.

So please, explain to me how a vaccinated child causses or spreads illnesses.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-27-2003
Tue, 08-26-2003 - 3:36pm


Vaccinated children do not spread contagious illnesses


YOu are 100% wrong about this. My neice and nephew both got chicken pox after my little step brother (who was being cared for during the day by my SIL at that time) was vaccinated for chicken pox. They had no exposure to any other child who had chicken pox either before or after they did.

I don't know about other illnessness that children are vaccinated for but I know for a FACT that chicken pox can be caught from a newly vaccinated child.

I think it would be a little hard for every parent who suspects their child has had contact with an infected child and MIGHT or MIGHT not be infected and coming down with chicken pox to keep them home or find other childcare(while still paying for daycare). I can thik of NO parents that I know that could possibly afford this. Do you think that the chidlren who have been vaccinated and might spread the illness that way should not co to daycare either?

My brother had chicken pox when he was six months old (I was two and a half and I had it also) and he had an extremely mild case, I thik my mom said he had a half a dozen spots and showed little discomfort from it. If your baby is lucky they will have a mild case now and gain a lifelong immunity which IMO would be better then the shots whose immunity wears off and could leave them vulnerable to the illness when they are older and will probably give them a worse time. I'm sorry you had such a bad time with sickness when you were little, but this is one vaccine that IMO seems oversold and unneeded.

Avatar for catherina
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Tue, 08-26-2003 - 3:52pm
when babies have a mild case of CP they can actually catch them again - my son had a moderate case at 6 months and a very mild case this spring at two

Catherina

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