What is it about vaccine reactions?

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-02-2009
What is it about vaccine reactions?
70
Mon, 01-12-2009 - 9:10am

I'm having a hard time figuring out something.

Point A: Obviously vaccines have some risks, or we wouldn't be hearing about parasites, i.e. non-vaxers, taking advantage of the virtuous, who undergo the RISK of having their children vaccinated to maintain herd immunity against disease. Right?

Point B: People who claim to have vaccine damaged children obviously vaccinated them, took the risk, and are enduring the consequences. So these people should be treated as heroes for herd immunity. Right?

Point C: However, in real life, vaccine damage is very likely to be dismissed. By doctors. By the program which is supposed to compensate the vaccine injured. In news stories. In medical journals. By CDC spokespeople. And in the online community it seems to be mostly either ignored or denied. Why?

Where I'm heading with this: the problem of the denial of vaccine damage has a lot to do with fueling the vaccine critics. Even parents whose children are vaccine damaged don't necessarily jump immediately and totally into the anti-vaccine camp. They are pushed there, gradually, but the discovery that they are considered to be the bad guys, even though they vaccinated and even though their children took the risk and even though they did their bit for herd immunity and a lot more. And other parents read these stories and see what happened and see who gets blamed and who doesn't.

So why the attempts to pretend that there is RISK but that this risk never results in any actual injuries?

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress

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iVillage Member
Registered: 08-20-2007
Mon, 01-19-2009 - 12:09pm

I'm going to keep bumping this up until a pro-vaxer explains where my numbers for vaccine reactions are incorrect.


And if no one does, then we will assume that I've correctly demonstrated that really serious vaccine reactions are occurring at a rate of at least one in every 18,000 children--or more.


And that these serious reactions are ignored and dismissed and sometimes even covered up to protect the vaccine program.





source?
girls ttcamangelttc09 babydustmanPhotobucket
girls
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-02-2009
Mon, 01-19-2009 - 3:09pm

I did the arithmetic a few posts back. Based on the common claim that adverse effects occur once in a million times.

Just wander back through the thread and read the discussion.

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-14-2005
Mon, 01-19-2009 - 3:19pm

"Let us suppose that serious vaccine injuries occur only once in a million doses."

Ok taking on the opposite role :)

Where is the source or is this just a hypothetical guess?






iVillage Member
Registered: 01-02-2009
Mon, 01-19-2009 - 7:33pm

It is the commonly admitted level of vaccine reactions. As in "vaccine reactions are very rare, perhaps one in a million."

Since there is no good, solid, scientific studies of the rate of vaccine reactions, we are stuck with guesstimates and so forth.

Do you have any good evidence that one in a million is too high?

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-02-2009
Mon, 01-19-2009 - 7:47pm

Here is some info from the CDC web-site on vaccine reactions. Note that they admit that people with pre-existing health conditions are at risk with vaccines because there is no data on safety from the clinical trials.

Quote:
Rare Reactions. The most important reason is to detect rare reactions. Although vaccines are tested extensively before they are licensed for use in the United States, not enough people are included in the tests to detect reactions that happen only rarely. If serious reactions are found when the vaccine is in widespread use, the vaccine may be withdrawn.

Higher Risk Groups. Vaccine safety monitoring also makes sure new vaccines are safe for groups such as the elderly, those with chronic medical conditions, and pregnant women. Vaccine trials may deliberately exclude members of these groups.

Public Confidence in Vaccines. Monitoring vaccine safety also helps to maintain public confidence needed to keep enough people vaccinated to prevent disease outbreaks.

How We Know If Vaccines Are Safe

Vaccine safety cannot be measured directly. Instead, it is estimated by the number of "adverse events" reported. An adverse event is "... a medical incident that takes place after an immunization ... and is believed to be caused by the immunization."1 Adverse events include—

* True reactions to the vaccine.
* Events that would have occurred even if the person had not been vaccinated (unrelated coincidences).
* Reactions related to mistakes in vaccine preparation, handling, or administration.
* Events that cannot be related directly to the vaccine; their cause is unknown.

A formal scientific study usually is required to distinguish between coincidences and true reactions. It is rarely possible to say for sure whether a vaccine caused a specific adverse event.

------------------------------------

This isn't very reassuring to me. Translation:

The extensive testing before vaccines are licensed tells us nothing about rare events and problems. They hope to pick up on these events after licensing through voluntary reporting. Voluntary reporting is also supposed to spot dangers in groups who were excluded from the clinical testing. The assumption is always that the vaccine may be innocent of wrong-doing and if any other explanation can be stretched to cover the data, it will be.

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-02-2009
Mon, 01-19-2009 - 7:58pm

from the CDC again, rates of serious reactions (which they'll admit) for various vaccines.

Anthrax: Serious allergic reaction (very rare - less than once in 100,000 doses).

DTap: Serious allergic reaction (less than 1 out of a million doses)

Less serious: * Seizure (jerking or staring) (about 1 child out of 14,000)
* Non-stop crying, for 3 hours or more (up to about 1 child out of 1,000)
* High fever, 105 degrees Fahrenheit or higher (about 1 child out of 16,000)

Hep A: serious allergic reaction, within a few minutes to a few hours of the shot (very rare)

Hep B: * serious allergic reaction (very rare)

Hib: The risk of Hib vaccine causing serious harm or death is extremely small.

I'm going to quote the whole statement for the HPV vaccine:
HPV vaccine does not appear to cause any serious side effects.

However, a vaccine, like any medicine, could possibly cause serious problems, such as severe allergic reactions. The risk of any vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely small.

Several mild problems may occur with HPV vaccine:

* Pain at the injection site (about 8 people in 10)
* Redness or swelling at the injection site (about 1 person in 4)
* Mild fever (100 degrees Fahrenheit) (about 1 person in 10)
* Itching at the injection site (about 1 person in 30)
* Moderate fever (102 degrees Fahrenheit) (about 1 person in 65)

These symptoms do not last long and go away on their own.

Life-threatening allergic reactions from vaccines are very rare. If they do occur, it would be within a few minutes to a few hours after the vaccination.

Like all vaccines, HPV vaccine will continue to be monitored for unusual or severe problems.

This information was taken directly from the Vaccine Information Statement

Influenza: * soreness, redness, or swelling where the shot was given
* fever
* aches

If these problems occur, they usually begin soon after the shot and last 1 to 2 days.

Severe problems:

* Life-threatening allergic reactions from vaccines are very rare. If they do occur, it is within a few minutes to a few hours after the shot.
* In 1976, a certain type of influenza (swine flu) vaccine was associated with Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS). Since then, flu vaccines have not been clearly linked to G.B.S. However, if there is a risk of G.B.S. from current flu vaccines, it would be no more than 1 or 2 cases per million people vaccinated. This is much lower than the risk of severe influenza, which can be prevented by vaccination.

MMR: Moderate Problems

* Seizure (jerking or staring) caused by fever (about 1 out of 3,000 doses)
* Temporary pain and stiffness in the joints, mostly in teenage or adult women (up to 1 out of 4)
* Temporary low platelet count, which can cause a bleeding disorder (about 1 out of 30,000 doses)

Severe Problems (Very Rare)

* Serious allergic reaction (less than 1 out of a million doses)
* Several other severe problems have been known to occur after a child gets MMR vaccine. But this happens so rarely, experts cannot be sure whether they are caused by the vaccine or not. These include:
o Deafness
o Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness
o Permanent brain damage

I think these are enough examples of the 1 in a million dogma.

But they really don't know how many reactions are occurring and they don't want to know. IMO.

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-14-2005
Tue, 01-20-2009 - 10:08am

Amen to the I don't think they want to know ;)

I actually think you could lower the one in a million estimate based on those numbers.

"Moderate" problems (in our case, seizures) are usually enough to stop a parent from vaccinating. And you never know what the outcome of a seizure will be - will it leave damage or won't it? In our case no permanent damage but there is no crystal ball to predict with certainty the outcome.






iVillage Member
Registered: 01-02-2009
Tue, 01-20-2009 - 2:40pm
I was thinking the same thing. The bit about the numbers of babies who scream for more than three hours after DTap are horrifying. How many of those babies have brain swelling?
http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2007
Tue, 01-20-2009 - 2:55pm
C'mon MV, coincidence... and normal.


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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-17-2005
Tue, 01-20-2009 - 2:56pm

Your translation is dead on!

"A formal scientific study usually is required to distinguish between coincidences and true reactions. It is rarely possible to say for sure whether a vaccine caused a specific adverse event."

That statement angers me! I mean, DUH! 1 in 150! A formal scientific study??? Well point me to those studies please! Anyone seen these "formal scientific studies" because I would like to see them...

"It is rarely possible to say for sure whether a vaccine caused a specific adverse event."
Why? I mean, when you have parent after parent after parent describing how a child was normal until after vaccinations and not normal afterward...does it take a brain surgeon, a rocket scientist AND a genius or two to figure that one out???

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