Would you vaccinate??? Why or why not??

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-20-2004
Would you vaccinate??? Why or why not??
27
Mon, 07-06-2009 - 9:53am

First, let me tell you that I am not one of those "nut job" parents who blames my child's autism on vaccines, although I do not at all know whta caused her to have autism, and I think that when the mystery of autism is solved, we will find that there is more than one "autism" and many potential causes. I don't have the time or energy to devote to debate on that subject matter. She developed completely normally until about 18 months. Secondly, let me tell you that I have a 12 year old daughter who is completely up to date on her vaccines, even where my 10 year old daughter with autism is not.

Here is why: At my younger dd's 15 month checkup, she received 4 vaccinations at one time, and reacted to one of them. Who knows which? All I know is that she was inconsolable for about a week after the fact, and that she had quite a high fever, also. It wasn't until later that she was diagnosed with autism, and it was a few years before I began to wonder if the two events were linked. (I can show you video of my daughter which shows that she was not autistic for at least the first 15 months of her life.) Anyhow, I stopped vaccinating her...because her immune system is weak. I had the support of her mainstream pediatrician. Fast forward 8 years. I decided to get dd caught up on her vaccinations...one vaccine at a time. Her dr. suggested we do the DTap first. We did this in August, 2008. And her arm was swollen from the shoulder to her elbow for a solid month. I am done vaccinating her.

I learned after my daughter's first reaction that I had also reacted to the DTP, which was formulated much differently back then. After my first DTP vaccine, all of the rest of them were DT, which I had no problems with.

So, I am pregnant. Is there a genetic predisposition to having reactions to certain vaccines? I am thinking about following a modified vaccine schedule with this little one. I have two kids...one who has reacted twice and one who has never had a reaction. I don't like the idea of just following whatever schedule is out there without at least weighing the risks and benefits. I certainly do not want to cause my little one any long term ill effects...and we all know that that has happened before.

So, what would you do, and why??

Heather

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iVillage Member
Registered: 08-27-2006
Mon, 07-06-2009 - 3:57pm

I have 3 children.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 09-23-2005
Tue, 07-07-2009 - 3:02am

What I would do is research the diseases that are vaccinated against and what is done, in your area with the health care options to which you have access, to treat those diseases if your child were to catch any of them. Research who is at risk for contracting those diseases and decide whether your child falls in that risk category. Weigh whether the risk of contracting the disease and not being able to be treated is worse than the risk of potential harm from the vaccine.

Our oldest received diptheria, tetanus, and pertussis, polio, and MMR vaccines through his second birthday. Our second received two diptheria, tetanus, and pertussis, polio, and one MMR. Our youngest received the polio vaccine and that is all. We do not plan to pursue a vaccination schedule any further at this point. After researching more about the diseases, we are not concerned that the present that much of a risk to our children with the health care to which we have access. Our questioning of vaccines started when we were pressured to get so many for our oldest and we just didn't see the need to put so much into his system when he just wasn't at risk for the diseases. We went ahead with what we considered the "normal" ones (DTaP, MMR, polio) but now, after researching further into those diseases over the years we just don't see the need for those vaccinations for our kids either.

That's the decision we feel comfortable with. We've never had a child react badly to vaccinations, although our oldest (and most vaccinated) is asthmatic and had many food allergies when he was younger. I don't know if there's a connection, but why push the issue, you know?

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Than

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-17-2005
Fri, 07-10-2009 - 8:25pm

We can’t tell you what to do, but let me give you a scenario and you tell me --- if this happened to you --- would you blame the vaccine then? Would you start to go after your own information or would you continue to listen to the lies? Just like me, you need to figure out what it is you’re afraid of. Figure it out for yourself, don’t blindly follow any one’s opinions – just your own.

To better put yourself in someone else’s shoes, you have to pretend it’s 1971 because things are different today – very different --- imagine for a moment:

You are a young parent, just finished night-school and planning to put your children in daycare. You are wrongfully led to believe they must have vaccines or no daycare will take them. The oldest has had her DPT, Smallpox and Polio vaccines but your toddler has not yet had his first vaccine. You visit a pediatric doctor who’s office is over 30 miles away because he’s got a great reputation and you trust him. You already know you have three visits ahead of you because the doctors only allow one vaccine at a time, more than that hasn’t been deemed “safe” (yet) but “safe” by this practice’s standards. It probably was considered safe by the government to give multiple vaccines with a combination vaccine back then (I’m not real sure).

So you make the 2:00 appointment, the doctor (not the nurse) gave your child the DPT (Diphtheria, Pertussis, Tetanus) and sent you on your way. You read the papers he gave you so you already know to check his temperature, it wouldn’t be uncommon if he ran a fever. He doesn’t feel hot, but he seems to need sleep so you put him to bed. You check on him once and he still does not feel hot so you think maybe he won’t have a fever. The next time you check on him, he has a raging fever and it came about very suddenly. You leave his crib to get your friend who’s sitting on the front porch. You tell her to come check him because he feels really hot and he didn’t even have a fever when you put him down. You call the doctor and he says to take his temperature but you don’t have a thermometer, it was at your mother’s. You hear a terrible sound coming from his room and before you even get off the phone, your child is convulsing.

This is the most frightening thing you have ever seen in your life but thankfully your friend is with you and your doctor is on the phone. The doctor calls the ambulance and tells you to stay put but you scoop the child up and drive to the hospital (because you know it will be faster). By the time you arrive, he’s convulsing again. The doctors, the ambulance personnel and the doctor who administered the shot ALL AGREED, it was the vaccine that caused the convulsing. They explain to you that sometimes a child will react to the DPT shot and the high fever causes brain damage, they are trying to learn why it’s happening. They can not tell you why your child reacted and his sister did not --- but a nurse spoke up and mentioned that it happened twice at a hospital she had worked at in the past. Same shot – the DPT.

If that happened to you and that was the last day you and your husband ever saw your normal toddler again, then would you be a “nut job” parent like me ;) ?

I didn’t have that happen to me as a parent, I was the sibling in the story. But I’m a “nut job” parent none-the-less. :)

In the next few days my brother didn’t try to speak. He had the seizures every single day. He was put on a handful of pharmaceuticals three times a day and could barely function due to being high as a kite all day. He didn’t act like himself ever again after that day. He did adopt new habits like not looking at anyone/not making eye contact. He began flapping his hands a lot, mostly when overly-excited. He got over-excited often. He stared into space a lot too, mostly when you tried to encourage him to speak. He then started drooling because of all the drugs turned him into a zombie. The drugs which eventually made his heart enlarged which led to his sudden death at 23. He lived his life with severe but classic Autism. Children are not usually that severely injured today – not like they were back then. The reason is because they no longer give this particular version of this particular shot any more. But they still give shots, and we still have Autism. Just because it wasn’t CALLED Autism back then, doesn’t mean it wasn’t the same exact affliction. That is what people don’t often realize. You can call it whatever you choose, you can even say that the severity is so broad, it needs a “spectrum” to be able to put it into words. Still, those are WORDS. When pharmaceutical companies are allowed to do their own “studies” to convince you that their products are safe, that’s what ya get...a bunch of word games on paper. Learn how to read the studies and that will open up a whole new understanding of the medical industry. There is no conspiracy. There *are* facts! The problem is, you’ll only get the truth from the “nut jobs”. The doctors, they will deny it til the very end today - unlike in the 70's where they were honest about it.

There are parents and siblings all over the world who have witnessed something similar to my story. That is why there seems to be so many of us “nut job” parents around. ; )

There are hundreds of varying degrees of Autism but I’ll guarantee you that when we learn the truth, it will be ONE CAUSE and that cause is vaccines. ADD and ADHD are very similar to Autism aren’t they? Think about it. The pharma industry may one day tell the truth, but you are right, there will be more than one cause - there would have to be to make it appear as if big pharma is innocent.

Besides, I have begged and pleaded for the pro-vaccine side to show me never-vaccinated kids with Autism for as long as I can remember...not a single soul is ever able to produce these kids. By the way, I can’t get them to produce records of never vaccinated SIDS babies either. Or never-vaccinated ADHD kids either. Wonder why?

To answer your question. No, I would not even consider it. I would, however, study the vaccine preventable diseases. (That will offer much needed peace of mind after you get bullied by the pharma-mafia.) I would breastfeed my new baby and stay at home when he/she is a newborn. You will only stop being a victim of scare-mongering when you do what I did, and educate yourself about the *diseases*. Don’t listen to group-speak and hearsay. Actually get the information yourself. That way you can separate fact from fiction. Doctors are not conspiring to mislead you. They are doing what they are trained to do. They are trained by books written and approved by the pharmaceutical industry.

If you want information, read the threads here and you’ll be provided with peer reviewed articles. From there, it’s up to you. Either you can put 2+2 together, or you can’t.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-20-2004
Mon, 07-13-2009 - 10:03am

I'm sorry if I offended you. I didn't mean "nut job" to be derogatory like it sounds, only to mean that I am not someone with extremist views in relation to this subject matter. I see it both ways. And I think in "normal" healthy children, vaccines are quite beneficial, but I think with a certain subset of children, they do more harm than good. I believe my younger daughter falls into this subset of children, and question whether it places the child I am carrying also in that subset by default. I have no idea whether he would react to vaccines or not. I did indeed make sure that my rhogham did not contain thimerasol! I don't know what I will do yet...I think it will be very hard to find a pediatrician who does not push the vaccinations.

Heather

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-17-2005
Mon, 07-13-2009 - 2:11pm

Sweetie, I'm not offended! I'm used to being called strange and other names too, aside from the vaccine stuff, I'm a little eccentric anyway :)

I didn't have extremist views until I began reading peer-reviewed pieces and wondered why I've been lied to. Then I realized that my doctors didn't knowingly lie. It is tough being a doctor today, it's especially tough when the parent of your patient knows more about vaccines that you do...and you went to med school, she didn't. (My pediatric doctors have all hated to see me come in.)

I believe that getting the flu and the chicken pox is beneficial - not getting the vaccines, but getting the actual disease is beneficial. Society has been brainwashed to believe that vaccines work every time, on every child - they don't. Our immune systems were designed like the rest of our muscles and our brain...if ya don't use it, ya loose it. If you had read what I have, you would believe the same. If the whooping cough vaccine worked and didn't wane then I MIGHT regard it as being beneficial...but it don't, so I don't. Other than that, you can not convince me that any vaccine is beneficial. I got some of the vaccine-preventable diseases so I know that it's a big lie whenever your doctor makes you afraid of skipping any one of the many vaccines that generations past never got.

In addition, if you spend a little time reading the threads here, they will lead you to peer-reviewed pieces and referenced that prove that the use of vaccines created the need for more vaccines. Your doctor won't tell you that, most doctors don't know that. If they spent just a few minutes looking back at their schooling, they would realize why they don't know that. Also, reviewing the people who wrote and approved the textbooks used in med school may also give them a clue.

I didn't get vaccinated against Hib, Hepatitis A,B, C or any other Hepatitis or Measles, Mumps, Rubella, or Pneumonia or flu or even diarrhea...neither did billions of other children who grew up when I did. Include those billions and billions who grew up before I did too - they got the diseases and they didn't die. Some did, of course there will always be exceptions because everyone is not as healthy as everyone else. My great-grandparents didn't grow up in a house where each child has his/her own bedroom. They lived in houses with very little sq footage and germs were easier spread during a time when homes did not have vacuum cleaners, carpet cleaners, dishwashers, washing machines and clothes dryers. And let's not forget that their food was not refrigerated, nor did they have freezers. All that and more has changed our environment, germs do not spread as they did before. I would say that we are a healthier people than before but given what our government has done to our food supply...just ask yourself why people in Mexico died from the swine flu. They are not a healthy nation. And quite frankly, neither are we - but in a different way. Bacteria infested water will make a person unhealthy. Pharmaceutical infested water will too but its a slower demise.

My brother was perfectly "normal" before his shot...just so you don't get the idea that kids are born with some affliction that causes them to become autistic after a shot. That is what people like to throw around...but it's BS and has no basis whats so ever to back up the claim. It's just fluff to make you assume that all doctors know best and all parents be damned. They don't want you reading the articles they don't have time to look for. They just want you to comply. When your child gets damaged, they will shrug their shoulders and say it wasn't the vaccine. Notice from my story that doctors did not do that back in the 1970's. Ask yourself why.

Stick around and ask questions. We don't have all the answers but we can sure point you to some informational reading. Then you can be the judge...but don't blindly accept what you're being told without looking at the proof yourself. I promise, we don't not vaccinate our children because we get off on being nut-cases ;) we actually have reasons. The proof is in the pudding...or actually its in the reading of approved and published medical journals.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-17-2005
Mon, 07-13-2009 - 3:01pm

"I think it will be very hard to find a pediatrician who does not push the vaccinations."

But see how they feel when you ask them to make your normal child normal again after a vaccine reaction. They will pull out their little prescription pad and write you some scrips that will, over time, enlarge your child's heart until it literally explodes and the child dies at an early age. That happened to my brother. It happened to my father who never ever drank, smoked or indulged his way into obesity. He was never even a little overweight but he trusted his doctors when they told him to pop pills. All those pills will kill a person...just ask Anna Nicole and Michael Jackson. Just ask the millions of young people who are dying every day in this country, from prescription drug use. My very small town had a piece in the paper one week and it said that the majority of *young* people in this county who have died over the last 10 years died from pharmaceutical drug overdose. That leaves people believing that the drugs are only dangerous when a person takes too many at one time and that is not the case. The drugs are killing people - healthy people! Vaccine preventable diseases don't kill healthy people. If they did, none of us would be here to tell our stories because our ancestors would have all died from the chickenpox or diarrhea.

I'm not trying to scare you, it must be hard to be pregnant and not know what to do. I was in that boat with my first child and I had already lived the proof. I just wouldn't believe it because I could not put faith in my own ability to read and understand what I was reading. The doctors were smarter than me, they had the education that gave them the ability to read these medical journals, I didn't. So my first was vaccinated on a partial and delayed schedule. With my second, I dared those nurses to come at her with a needle! I wish I had known a little about the myelin sheath back then. Then I would have simply looked at them and said, no, the myelin sheath is not mature until after age 2 so I will consider it then. How much you wanna bet those nurses would have looked at me like I had grown a third eye? Doctors and nurses can attend continuing education classes all day long but you have to consider - once a new discovery is made, it takes an unreal amount of paper-pushing before its ever accepted and taught in med school. If that new discovery hurts the value of stock prices in any way shape or form, then the new discovery may NEVER get disseminated. Why? Because the people holding that stock will be spending all of their time trying to discredit the group of Scientists who carried out the study AND the Writers who wrote about it. Hell, if need be, they'll also discredit the journal which published the new finding! With those people discredited, they then have an easy out of any conversation about the facts. The truth is never even considered, the little worker-bees just happily accept what the industry tells them to accept and they never look back.

Do stick with us, and even if you do vaccinate we won't think you're a bad Mom for not siding with us. It's not about sides, and we know you're being the best Mom you can be, just like the rest of us. We just want you to be an informed Mom :).

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-20-2004
Tue, 07-14-2009 - 7:06pm

Thanks, everyone, for sharing your insights on this subject matter. I have done A LOT of research on the matter in the past, but much has been forgotten. My brain can only hold onto so much information at a time.

Can anyone point me in the direction of information showing siblings of children who have reactions are more likely (or not) to have reactions themselves? This is where I think I want to start my research.

Also, how did you all find pediatricians who supported you in not vaccinating your children, or did you???

THANKS!!!

Heather

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-23-2005
Wed, 07-15-2009 - 6:15am

I don't have any research links about siblings.

Regarding pediatricians, I have never found one that supported not vaccinating. I understand that they think it is best to vaccinate and that they have to do their shpiel. I am fine smiling and listening to it. I am not going to convince them of my position and they are not going to convince me of theirs, but they cannot force me to vaccinate my child so I just listen to what they have to say and keep quiet.

I took my kids in when they were born and a couple other times in their first years and then it kind of just waned after that. My son gets awful wax build-up in his ears, so sometimes we do go in so they can irrigate his ears, although we have also done it at home and it seems to work just as well. I don't think either of my girls have ever been in for a sick visit. I would take them to the pediatrician for something like an unexplainable rash that was causing discomfort and that seemed to be spreading, a fever over 103* that lasted for a couple days, if they had been vomiting or had diarrhea for several days and couldn't keep anything down, things like that. Just a cough or cold...we treat at home.

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Than

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-17-2005
Wed, 07-15-2009 - 3:33pm

This is just my opinion but I *think* that it may have something to do with a child being less healthy when they get the vaccines. You can't tell when they are at their peak of health, but a new baby's immune system is not even fully developed at age 2. So for them to vaccinate - which requires a response from the immune system - at day one - is just bazaar. We all go through stages of being at our peak of good health but we're not always there and who knows when that day is? KWIM?

I have read a little about the myelin sheath and I've been convinced that it may have to do with how mature that sheath is when the vaccine occurs....but I'm science-stupid so don't take my word for it, just read as much as you can. I'm working on that "stupid" part BTW :)

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-16-2009
Wed, 07-15-2009 - 3:42pm

I found my pediatrician, who fully supports my rights as a parent to make medical decisions, on a listing on generationrescue.org here is the direct link to the listing-


http://generationrescue.org/doctors.php


Dr. Sear's website has a listing too..


http://askdrsears.com/thevaccinebook/Vaccine_Friendly_Doctors.asp


It turned out that I went to college with the wife of the doctor that we chose and we now socialize with them.

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