Know anything about refusing csection?

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-10-2009
Know anything about refusing csection?
8
Sun, 12-20-2009 - 9:37pm

A little background.... I have had 2 csections (my first and last babies with 12 years in between) and 3 VBACs. I live in Oklahoma, where everything birth related is being run by malpractice insurance companies right now (well, has been for a few years). I started my search to find a dr who would allow me to have a VBA2C a little over 2 years ago, and it started with this very board. Thanks to someone here I was able to find the one dr in the state of OK that has different insurance and I was ecstatic and relaxed and enjoying my pregnancy (which is my last one ever!) and the hospital was allowing him to perform VBACs. Well, last month, there was unfortunately a bad outcome at the hospital where the lady ruptured and the baby died, despite being delivered within 20 minutes of the rupture. The hospital has put a "temporary" ban on VBACs... I found out about the change with about 5 weeks left to go in my pregnancy. I now have 2 weeks until my EDD. I have been told that I basically have 3 options.... have the csection, wait at home in labor until I'm 8-9cm, or come in in labor to refuse the csection. At this moment there is no medical reason for me to be forced into another csection (not to mention the fact that my husband left me about 5 months ago so I'm a single mom of soon to be 6) and I'm afraid of waiting at home too long (besides, how can you tell yourself how far dilated you are!).... I'm not one for an unassisted homebirth for sure. The reasons for my csections are typically not repeated... my first was for CPD (which she was my smallest baby to date) and my 5th baby (2nd csection) was because he had his cord wrapped around his neck 3 times, not allowing him to drop into the birth canal. The midwives here wouldn't be allowed to do a VBA2C.

My question is this: I know if I go in in labor that they cannot refuse me care, but what can they do or refuse to do (pain management, etc) if I refuse to sign consent for a csection? Has anyone here had to do this or know anyone that has? My dr said he has never had anyone do this so he doesn't know what would happen. He is still all for VBACs but has to abide by the hospital's ban.

Also of concern for me is the fact that I've never gone into labor on my own yet and the fact that I have big babies (smallest one was 8lbs even but she was 13 days late). I'm honestly wondering if I just don't produce the hormones I need for labor!!! (I'm sure that isn't true but you can see how I might think that after having to induce 5 babies!)

Thanks in advance for any advice or help you can give.

(Sorry for the hat--- my computer doesn't like to let me switch between hat and no hat for whatever reason!)

Tessa


Mom to 5 kids, 3 angels, and 1 baby girl on the way!


Photobucket
Why?
Photobucket

Photobucket



SnapdragonSnapdragon Mommies


PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

PhotobucketOctober LTP



Tessa


Mom to 6 kids and 3 angels!



iVillage Member
Registered: 07-21-1998
Mon, 12-21-2009 - 9:23am

I haven't seen anyone around here with a personal story about refusing a c-section in a place that banned VBACs. I came within a very loud shout, but mine was just "We really ought to schedule a c-section because I don't think you'll go into labor" "Let's wait a few more days to decide" (and then I went into labor the next day, which was my EDD).

Delay is a good thing. Even hours might make a difference. Letting people think you might be persuadable instead of appearing to be unmovable can get you more consideration.

I wuold suggest you check out the unassisted birthing board, just to learn to tell for yourself what are real trouble signs. I think it rather likely that any requested pain relief could be "accidentally delayed" in order to persuade you that you "need" a c-section, so you should learn as much as possible about how to go without. (It's also generally believed that the less you have done to you, the less can go wrong, which is a plus) If most of your c-sections have been after labor, you can probably put yourself in a good frame of mind to deal with it. (Less of this first-timer "What is this; does it mean a problem" stuff)

I posted a recent article from CNN of all places about getting a VBAC with some good advice. The biggie is to always ask how much time you have to think. (5 minutes, 20 minutes, 1 or more hours) before it's life & death.

I'll also suggest that if the rupture didn't happen to your doctor (or your nurses) they'll be more amenable to a "plausible deniability" situation. "We TRIED to do a c-section, but ...." Try to be clear but not explicit about trying for a vaginal birth for as long as possible.

Cthulu Crochet



Cthulu Crochet

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-18-2009
Wed, 12-23-2009 - 10:47am

Hi Tessa,


Welcome to the board!

Rose 


iVillage Member
Registered: 07-10-2009
Wed, 12-23-2009 - 4:38pm

Thanks for the advice!
On the positive side for me is the fact that I have had one unmedicated birth and my last one where I made it to around 7-8 where it was taking forever and I just couldn't take any more (but he was the one with the cord around his neck) before I gave in. The one in between those two I also went quite a while but don't remember how far I was but he was also my biggest baby at 9lbs 1.5oz (quite larger than my next biggest at the time which was 8lbs 5oz). So I KNOW it is possible for me to go without pain meds so I'm really not that worried about that aspect of it. Plus I have been known to be a bit stubborn and if I truly set my mind to it, I can do it (actually that is more due to being in the Navy for 8 years rather than being stubborn but you kwim!)

I just wanted to see what to expect as far as their treatment of me and what would be considered acceptable and unacceptable. At this time I have no support person.... my dad thinks I am stupid for even attempting a VBAC and thinks I should just have a csection and move on with my life and even if I let my soon to be ex-husband in there with me, I don't think he would be a good advocate for me. My sister is the same as my dad.

Right now I am 4cm & 50% effaced. You would think she would just fall out already!

Thanks for the advice and encouragement!

Tessa


Mom to 5 kids, 3 angels, and 1 baby girl on the way!


Photobucket
Why?
Photobucket

Photobucket



SnapdragonSnapdragon Mommies


PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

PhotobucketOctober LTP



Tessa


Mom to 6 kids and 3 angels!



iVillage Member
Registered: 05-06-2005
Thu, 12-24-2009 - 4:47am

I am a very strong advocate for vbacs. One thing I would have done when all this came about if I were you is join iCAN. Which is a vbac advocacy group. It's a little too late for that. But I'll let you know what I know and what you can do to help your situation out.

First of all you need support. Even if you just have a friend who will go in there with you and put their foot down right along with you. That's going to be key to getting what you want.

Second of all you're right about your options. If you really want to get into the nitty gritty of it you can go in there in labor and sit there and REFUSE to sign the consent form. If you were to do that, the shoe is on the other foot and the hospital would have to go to court and get a junction to force you into a csection. They'd have to have a pretty good reason too and as far as I know judges usually won't make you have an unnecessary surgery. Or you could just go in there crowning and not much they could do about that, they would be forced to do a vbac for you.

From all I've heard and read about women refusing to get csections get treated like dirt. They get yelled at, told by nurses they are idiots and on and on.

It really pains me to see so many women being forced into something that is totally not necessary and having their rights taken away. Come on you know it's up to about 50% of babies are born csections each year. That is totally and utterly ridiculous. I don't see any other surgery being forced on people besides csections. Really it has nothing to do with insurances and ruptures and all that lark. The truth is the ACOG (American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists) is the one who makes recommendations for the hospitals to abide by. In 2005 they recommended that hospitals have an on call emergency staff for vbac emergencies. So most hospitals don't want to pay for this on call staff so instead they just came up with some bull crap story and stopped doing them. Which in my opinion if they don't have an on call emergency staff how are they going to have do emergency csections? Doesn't make much sense to me. So best of luck to you, I'll say a little prayer for you and for any other women going through this or who will ever have to go through this.

I only have one child, I had a midwife and was supposed to have a water birth. Well turns out my water sack tore instead of bursting and it leaked for two days before I got to the hospital. So after breaking my water and putting me on pitocin I made the mistake of asking for an epidural which slowed my labor down to nothing and after about 16 hours of labor I never dilated past a 4 or 5 so they had to do a csection. I made sure to ask my midwife if that meant I would always have to have csections, she said NO! A year late in 2005 that same hospital banned vbacs and pretty much every hospital I would even consider going to. But luckily for me I live in a big city in Washington State so there is another hospital in town (WHICH I HATE) that does do vbacs and supports them. As of right now we are ttc our second child. So even though I do not really want to go to this certain hospital (very, very bad experience while I was pregnant the first time at this hospital) I have to go there. I have no other choice unless I want to travel to Seattle, which wouldn't be such a good idea. I can't get any help because lawyers will only help if you are in a situation where you have to travel more then 50 miles to have a vbac. So no such luck for me on delivering where I want to.

So I really, really, really wish you the best of luck. And tell you father and sister to stick it where the sun don't shine!

Mandy Daisypath Anniversary tickers
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-24-2007
Thu, 12-24-2009 - 12:27pm

I had my second child naturally after the first was c/sec, and Internation Cesarean Awareness Network really helped.
They have current info on options state-by-state, and many women there can tell you how they had a VBAC after more than one C-sec.

ICAN is at www.ican-online.org and you get the messages via email; none are archived on the site, but you can ask other women right now about what to do in your state, in your situation, and you will get real-world answers and a lot of experiences from women who have BTDT, both good and bad.

Henci Goer's website is www.hencigoer.com and she has a lot of good info too. She wrote "The Thinking Woman's Guide to a Better Birth" as well as "Obstetic Myths versus Research Realities" amongst other things.

So does VBACfacts.com

I too had an ingrained fear/belief that I might not go into labor, because I was induced with my first (leading to section)... it's the same thing as the problem I had believing my breasts could make milk... even though I knew they could rationally, emotionally it was hard for me to grasp, probably because I didn't grow up seeing nursing as a norm, so to me it was all theoretical. Same thing with labor. When inductions are the norm, it's hard to believe that you can actually go into labor on your own, and docs are very quick to reinforce that idea, that you can't or won't, which is purely ridiculous. It can happen, but is exceedingly rare... primarily, the misinformation that 40 weeks is a deadline, in the USA, is part of the problem, because human gestation, normal fullterm, is known to range from 38 to 42 weeks, and in the Netherlands for instance, no one would be suggesting a woman was "overdue" until AFTER 42 weeks has come and gone, but here, OBs tell women regularly that 40 weeks is the END, and after that, there is some danger. Going into labor at 42 weeks is neither unusual nor dangerous, but in this country, they pretend that 40 weeks is a limit. What a difference an ocean makes. By the way, the "VBAC-friendly" OB I was seeing before I left her practice, the second time, perkily assured me they induced on VBAC "all the time" and it was perfectly safe. I wonder what she would say now, now that the ACOG has come out against inducing on VBAC because it greatly increases chances of rupture? Wish they would come out against using it routinely at all, because Pitocin causes fetal distress and can cause ruptures even in women who have unscarred uteri, who never had a cesarean.

My OB said What?! is a funny and sometimes disturbing website as well, where women log the outrageous things told to them by docs, nurses, and other 'caregivers'.http://myobsaidwhat.com/

Knowledge is power, and there are options out there, but OBs are not going to be the ones to tell you about them.


 

-Meg

Loving life as an 0ver-35 mom and Postal Wife, homeschooling, urban homesteading, relaxed crunchy/geek hybrid housewife, trying to live consciously in an age of media hypnosis

<a href="http://lilypie.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-10-2009
Sun, 01-03-2010 - 10:47pm
I'm now past my due date and I'm feeling that clock ticking. My other 5 babies have all been induced and with the temporary ban on VBACs at the hospital I'm supposed to deliver at, my dr's hands are tied and he cannot induce me. There is no other option for hospitals. So my choices are to go into labor on my own or submit to an unneeded csection. The longer past my due date I get, the more concerned I get that I will be forced into a csection. He told me in the beginning that he would only let me go 10 days after my due date before inducing, but now with induction not an option, that leaves one thing. I'm getting so stressed out about this and I don't know what else to do. Any suggestions??? I'm still 4cm and 50% and have another dr appt Tuesday. I am having occasional contractions, but mostly in the evenings then stop when I lay down to get my 2 year old to sleep. This is my 6th baby. I've tried nipple stim with pump, clary sage oil, #PO, root beer floats, stairs, cleaning, etc. I bought some castor oil (on suggestion of my SIL's mom who is a midwife) but just can't bring myself to use it. I'm feeling desperate and it isn't a good feeling.

Tessa


Mom to 5 kids, 3 angels, and 1 baby girl on the way!


Photobucket
Why?
Photobucket

Photobucket



SnapdragonSnapdragon Mommies


PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

PhotobucketOctober LTP



Tessa


Mom to 6 kids and 3 angels!



iVillage Member
Registered: 04-18-2009
Tue, 01-05-2010 - 9:20pm

Hi Tessa,


I'm sorry you're feeling stressed!

Rose 


iVillage Member
Registered: 11-09-2009
Tue, 01-05-2010 - 11:26pm

I'm so sorry you are going through this, I feel your pain and frustrations!!