It Seems to Me

Avatar for nora_mcl
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-30-2011
It Seems to Me
11
Sun, 01-26-2014 - 2:06pm

That as the mothers of some of these children who give us grief, who cause us to worry-we have to sit back & think more about it & go with our hearts & our gut rather than to listen to what someone else has to say about it. We carried these children around for 9mo, then we burdened to push them into the world & then we worked hard to teach them the basics of life-how to eat, how to survive & how to be adults in a very unforgiving world. And as the adults who did this-shouldn't we be the very ones who expect the least from them now?

I've given "startingover"s post a lot of thought in the past week-so much that I didn't feel I could add to it after all this time-I felt I needed to start a new one. As I said before, in her last one, we've had issues with our kids/our daughters & I never ever gave up. And I cannot believe that I ever will-no matter what someone else would tell me. Every therapist/counsellor has their own opinion & their own way of counselling-but their way isn't always my way. I would never walk away from my child (& my adult children are still my children)& say "Call me when you are grown up & mature" because that, to me, guarantees they won't ever call me again. And to be honest-that would simply kill me inside.

Like everyone, we've done things for our kids that will never be reciprocated-hopefully they will do them for their own kids. Things have been said that can't be UN-said, but sometimes you have to hope that future actions will show that those words weren't true, but were in a moment of anger or frustration. "I'm sorry" is important-sometimes it isn't quite enough & the old adage "Actions speak louder than words" must come true.

The wedding of your other DD is important-but making her feel guilty for flying there is terrible. If the shower cannot be arranged for the few days before the wedding, then either go alone or on a cheap flight (Red-eye?)or train or send a gift & a phonecall. Our son got married out of town-which was a logistical nightmare trying to arrange hotel rooms with the oxygen, the tuxedo for Adam (& Mike)& everything-but we managed it & I made sure I had wads of kleenex in my purse. I do realize it must be different having the 2 families-that these girls are from your first dh-not the current one. But they still are yours to love & to be loved & that should never change-In my opinion anyway.

Sorry, 'startingover'-as I said, I've thought & thought-read your posts over & over. I cannot imagine even considering "leaving her alone until she matures". She is yours to love forever-immature or not. And without you around, how will she ever be able to form a trusting & lasting relationship with anyone? Her parents' relationship did not endure-she needs you to prove that she is capable of having one. And the first one all of us have is always with our parents.

Nora

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iVillage Member
Registered: 01-13-2010
Fri, 01-31-2014 - 12:00pm
I cannot force my DD to have a relationship with me if she doesn't want one and God knows I've tried. My DD28 didn't speak to me for a year and a half (she had her reason and I knew it), she eventually came around and we are very close now. I know there will come a day DD26 will also come around. As for the wedding, I have NEVER told my DD28 that her wedding is a hardship, but she knows dh is unemployed, so we just don't talk about it. She knows I will be there when she wants me there...for both the shower and the wedding.
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-13-2010
Fri, 01-31-2014 - 11:51am
Thank you.
Avatar for shirley_v
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-29-2000
Mon, 01-27-2014 - 5:34pm

I too have written a post for this thread which I will reproduce here but I've also put it under the original thread below.(Covering all bases!?)

Startingover, I too have been thinking quite a lot about your last two posts.  I too am in agreement with Nora's position (in the post above this thread) about not giving up on your daughter, so to speak - to wait for her to mature and become forgiving and all that that entails or so you hope. 

The way I have come to see it is that both you and your DD are both hurting a lot about certain perceptions you are both nursing.  Both of you are feeling hurt by the actions of the other, and though the reasons be different, nevertheless you are both feeling hurt.  Despite your DD's anger or uncaring attitude - I think it's fuelled by deep hurt but then again, that is HER PERCEPTION, not a God-given truth about you and what you've done or not done.  The bottom line, as I see it, is that she perceives she's been hurt by her perception or belief that you abandoned her, or you chose your present Dh over her (and her sisters) - and whatever else she's heaped on the pile of 'sins' she thinks you are guilty of.  This is not a revelatory statement, I realise.  What I'm pointing out is that I sense both of you are feeling very much the 'victim' in all of this and this is a concept, a perception, a thought process and so if you both hang on to this perception then you both  contribute to the stalemate or the continuation of both of you holding out for whatever it is that the other person will do to change the situation.  Well, I can't say about what your DD is hoping for ultimately, but I see, or shall I assume that you are hoping and waiting for her to reach out, to change her attitude, to forgive and ask forgiveness or whatever to restore the good relationship between you.

What I mean to underline is that perceptions come from thoughts we hold about people, ourselves, our belief system about the world, what we perceive is happening is a certain way.  So, if we think we are a victim or being victimised, ("Look what he or she has done to ME !") then we feel like a victim.  If we choose to examine our feelings and then our thoughts maybe we can see things in a different way or light.  If we see the other person (as in this situation) as having THEIR OWN SET OF BELIEFS, HANG UPS, whatever you want to call them,  and that it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OTHER PERSON IN THE SITUATION (i.e. you), then we can divorce our thoughts of feeling like we are being hard done by the other person.

I have had this experience myself, and so too my friend, who I have quoted here and there and whom I have learned a good deal from about such things.  If you can put aside your feeling hurt, then you may be able to look at your DD in a different light.  Yes, you can label her as being immature but she's just a human being like all of us are, and she is your DD, who is hurting deep down inside from her own, if even mistaken concept of why she is feeling hurt (by blaming you, that is). That is why I am promoting a sense of compassion for your daughter just as Nora is by what she advocates.

I just thought I'd put out this way of seeing things as an alternative to blaming and feeling badly.
Shirley  

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2009
Mon, 01-27-2014 - 2:28pm

These types of message boards are not as private as we may think. Nothing on the web is.  I wonder how her kids would feel if they or someone who knew they came across the posts and put two and two together.  There is venting and then there is venting.

Plus, calling  her daughter immature, I suspect, is a way of not dealing with the issues. It is so easy to use that as a reason but, IMHO,  that label can be dismissive of the person's feelings and motivations.

We do not know the daughter's side nor the true dynamics in that family.

Avatar for elc11
Community Leader
Registered: 06-16-1998
In reply to: elc11
Mon, 01-27-2014 - 1:24pm

"Honestly, just posting all the negative comments about her DD makes me unconfortable. This is something I would never do. My kids deserve their privacy."

itea, I have to ask---in what way do Startingover's posts invade her kids' privacy? She has never revealed anything about herself or her kids that would allow someone to identify any of them. I think that she says those things here precisely to protect their privacy. Having the same conversations with family, friends, neighbors or coworkers would invade their privacy but has she ever indicated that she says these things to anyone besides her therapist and in online message boards?

If somebody feels the need to express frustration (ie. negative comments) with the actions of a friend or relative, where would be more suitable than someplace like this? In my opinion the anonymity of these boards is a large part of their value.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-22-2009
Mon, 01-27-2014 - 8:14am

I think that maybe question was the wrong word.  I do have a right to disagree, give an opinion and talk about it.  But again no more right than if I were not their mother.  I do not have any right to pull the "I am your mother card " or whine because they do not follow my advice.

I have never had any of my adult children get mad at me for giving advice I think in big part because I do it rarely, and save it for the big stuff. 

Avatar for sabrtooth
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-03-1999
Sun, 01-26-2014 - 11:18pm

"Nester, we will have to disagree here.  I can, and DO question the decisions made by people I love, if I think those decisions are foolish or detrimental.  They can choose to act on my questions, or not.  That is their right.  And if they get mad for what I have said, I will profoundly apologize for phrasing the question in a way that made them mad.  But generally they do not, because they know I believe love is telling the emperor he is NOT wearing clothes!! 

And if someone gets mad because you question their decisions, then generally that is a red flag that something is wrong.  No one is above questions.  No one's decision is above questioning.  All decisions can be debated, and good ones, defended.  Perhaps your stance is a result of being in the military, where one unquestioningly accepts decisions.  That is not, and never would have been, me. 

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-22-2009
Sun, 01-26-2014 - 7:53pm

 My feelng has always been that it is my job to raise independent adults which I have.  As independent adults they have the same right  that any other adult has to make decisions and I have no more right to question their decisions just because I am their mother than I do any other adult. 

Avatar for sabrtooth
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-03-1999
Sun, 01-26-2014 - 6:53pm

Nora, I SOOO agree with you on this one.  Like you, and Marie, my children are my heart.  I could not fathom not speaking to my children, or not begging their forgivness even if I didn't think I'd done anything wrong.  Heck, I do the same with my family, Ed, and even my friends.  It takes two to make a fight, and if the other person won't give in, well, I'm not too proud, or too righteous, because I  will NOT throw away love.  Life is too short to carry a grudge. 

I am an advocate of counseling--I MAJORED in Behavioral Psychology.  I do NOT believe that I have all the answers, or that there is nothing new left to learn, or that ANYONE'S behavior is unchangable.  However, I fully recognize that counselors are just as human as I am, able to make mistakes, and capable of having, and proposing, foolish ideas.  Not EVERYONE graduated at the top of their class, but they ALL are called "Doctor".  But before I rejected out of hand what someone was suggesting, I would first discuss with them, what it was about their suggestions that was making me uncomfortable, or what it was that I did not feel I could do

Because sometimes, the problem is not that the counselor has made a bad suggestion, but that the patient is not listening to what the counselor is saying, or is hearing something the counselor has NOT said, or that the all too human counselor has simply stopped beating their head against a wall.  At which point, they should recuse themselves, and refer the patient to someone new.

 

Avatar for nora_mcl
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-30-2011
Sun, 01-26-2014 - 5:23pm

Thank you. As I said-I put a lot of thought into it-& tried to be sure I wasn't saying something offensive.

We see a counsellor too-someone to help us cope with our grief. And no matter how many years experience he has (& it's a lot)I'd never do anything he told me if it went against my own instincts.

Nora

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