Can someone help? Advice needed........

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Registered: 10-16-2006
Can someone help? Advice needed........
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Tue, 04-17-2007 - 3:02pm

I know I don't get to post much, my life is kind of nuts right now! I really need some advice and I'm hoping that you ladies can help!

I do in home daycare for family friends. I have three siblings, a boy 10 months, and two girls ages 4 and 5. I have the baby Mon-Fri, the 4 yr old Tues-Thurs and every other Friday and the 5 yr old every Monday and every other Friday. I have no problems with the baby or 5 yr old however the 4 yr old is another story.

All three kids are spoiled. From what I've seen so far this school year the girls have always been allowed to rule the roost. They do what they want, when they want. They demand and they get. They really didn't do anything for themselves when I first started keeping them. Mom picked out their clothes, dressed them completely, brushed and fixed their hair and got them everything to eat or drink. Even now they don't get themselves anything to eat or drink and she still dresses them alot. They had no manners at all when they started coming here. I have to give mom credit, she's been really trying to make rules and stick with them. Although most of the rules only apply to the 5 yr old and so do most punishments. She has it in her head that 4 yr old is still a baby and treats her as such. 5 yr old will get in trouble for something then when 4 yr old does it, it's ok because "she's too little to understand!" NOT!

I've had problems with 4 yr old all school year(mom is a teacher). She is a very demanding child. She wants her way all the time. She wants constant attention from everyone. She should never be told no, never punished. She torments the other kids until she has them screaming. She lies. It's a constant, all day, hassle when she's here. I am supposed to give her attention CONSTANTLY. She has no reason to act bored because I've really gone out of my way to buy fun but educational toys. They have a huge dollhouse with dolls, horses, Legos and wooden blocks, dolls with tons of real baby clothes for them, a stroller and playpen for dolls, a cash register, TONS of arts and crafts supplies, etc. I do fun things with them like bake bread, decorate cupcakes, make holiday crafts, play tic tac toe, etc. And I talk with them constantly. I've never in my life seen kids who need and want SO much attention. They are so used to an adult constantly directing their play that they won't do it themselves. 4 yr old will stand in a room full of toys and say "I don't know what I want to do"! I have to put her to a task or she stands and stares at me.

Part of her problem is jealousy of the baby. But geez, he's almost 11 months old, it's time to move on isn't it? They don't get much time with Mom anymore. She works full time, they have sports three days a week, they spend weekends with grandparents or great grandparents, etc. Mom actually told me week before last "A thinks you are his mom and I'm just the babysitter who keeps him in the evenings and on weekends!" I think that's part of the problem, not enough of mom's attention. Mom will leave them with someone to do things, but she won't leave the baby and take just them.

It's gotten so bad that I really dread the days she's here. She torments the baby until he screams. I can tell her not to, punish her, etc. and she does it anyway! She can look you right in the eye and tell you the rules, then go break them! She has to copy everything sister does, and I mean EVERYTHING! I had them both Friday before last and it was a nightmare! If sister peed, she had to go too. If sister took a drink, she took a drink. If they colored she had to use the exact same crayon as sister. If they drew pictures she would sit and watch sister, then copy her's exactly. If sister blew her nose, she had to too. This went on for 9 very long hours! She had sister screaming before noon! I finally had to separate them and turn her with her back to her sister so she wouldn't copy the picture 5 yr old was drawing! It's gotten so bad that on Tuesdays she will demand to do whatever it was sister did here Monday. Yesterday sister had mashed potatoes and peas for lunch. I gave 4 yr old leftovers today and she demanded to know if sister stirred her peas into her potatoes so she could do it too! I worry about this alot. She has no idea how to function on her own. She is such a follower that I see her in alot of trouble as a teen! And poor sister has NO life at all! At home she's forced to give 4 yr old whatever she wants, share everything with her, let her go first in games, etc. If sister isn't here, she copies me all day. She repeats everything I say to the baby, even if she's sitting clear across the room. If I try to play with the baby she pushes in and takes over. I've tried giving her extra attention but it makes her behavior even worse.

She demands to eat CONSTANTLY! She will finish breakfast at her house right before we come here(I pick them up in the mornings) then as soon as I fix the baby something or fix myself breakfast, demand to eat again. Alot of times she demands something before we even get in the house! I'd never deny a hungry child something to eat, but I know she's NOT hungry! She usually waits until I start to eat to ask, no make that demand! If I tell her she can't have anything else she will stand and stare at me while I eat and say over and over and over"dont' you know I'm still hungry!" and she won't shut up until she gets something to eat. She's had two breakfasts and lunch today and 10 minutes after finishing a huge lunch said "now it's snack time!" Snack time is 3pm and she's asked me for snack 5 times in the last hour!

There is no ignoring her either. She will say the same thing over and over and over for an hour until you finally answer her or tell her to stop. She will sit and repeat the baby's name over and over in this high pitched voice until I just want to scream! She takes toys away from him until he screams. She is very rough with him, holding onto him until he screams, putting her hair in his face and shaking her head until he screams, etc.

She even torments my kids and they are 11 and almost 15 LOL. If dd is sitting on the couch eating a granola bar she will climb right up on top of her and say over and over and over "I like granola bars too". She will demand that my ds give her his toys, etc.

I will have the summer off from the kids and I'm trying to decide if I want to take them on again next year. The oldest will be in school full time. I will have the baby full time and the 4 yr old on Monday and Friday. I want to take them, I just don't know if my nerves can handle her another year. And I can't imagine what she will be like after a whole summer off from me! How do I help her adjust to the baby and behave better? I've tried everything.....explaining the rules, standing her in the corner, extra attention, etc. NOTHING works! And it's hard when the same rules don't apply at home.

Do any of you have a demanding child like this?? How do you handle it? Even if you don't have a child like this, do you have any suggestions for me? I can not and will NOT devote 8+ hours a day to giving her my undivided attention. I just can't do it. I worry about her and how she will be once she starts school 3 days a week next year. She's going to have such a hard time fitting in and I worry what she might do that someone suggests!

Sherri

Sherri ~ mom to Brooke and Tyler, wife to Randall and fan of Nascar's Carl Edwards

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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-19-2006
Tue, 04-17-2007 - 3:17pm

Wow Sherri!! You have the patience of a Saint!!


It sounds like you have pretty much done all that you can. The mom really needs to get more involved and make that child understand that she isn't the boss, just a child. I commend her for trying to set rules, but she really needs to try harder.


It made me very sad for the 5 yr old to read your post. A 4 yr old is not a baby and should be held to the same rules and punishments as the 5 yr old. Have you tried mentioning that to the mom?


I also think you are right to worry about when this little girl goes to school next year. If this mom isnt familiar with the principal yet, she will be.


Good luck and lots of ((hugs)) to you!


 

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Registered: 08-12-2003
Tue, 04-17-2007 - 3:32pm

Sherri,

It's good to see you on the board again. Sorry you're having such a hard time dealing with this child. It sounds like a real nightmare. Personally, I could not imagine having three kids and putting them in someone else's care all day. But 'nuff said about that. I'm not an expert, but I think you nailed it when you said that she is lacking mom's attention. Mom feels guilty and gives her whatever she wants, even if it upsets the older sister. Older sister probably resents little sister because she has to give up so much to her just because they are two girls close in age. It really does sound like you've literally tried EVERYTHING to work with this child and honestly it is probably not even close to a little bit her fault. She just feels like she needs attention. She's the middle child and has to compete with the baby (I would bet the mom spends most of her free time with the baby because the baby is, well, the baby.) Negative attention is still attention, right?

I don't think there is anything you can do to help her behavior since it comes from the way her homelife is. In order for her to change I would think it would lie with the mother and father to give them more personal, one-on-one time so that each child feels important and doesn't feel the need to lash out in order to get attention from an adult. I know from when I worked that I would get home at seven at night (I think teacher's get home earlier) but I barely had time to spend with Noah between making dinner, cleaning the house up and whatever else that had to be done. I would imagine that with three kids this woman is stretched pretty thin by the time she gets home.

It sounds like a really tough decision whether or not to take them on again next year. That would be completely your call if you think you can handle it again. Good luck!

Tarra

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Registered: 02-27-2007
Tue, 04-17-2007 - 6:28pm

My first thought after reading your post was, don't watch the kid next year. I haven't read any of the other responses, so forgive me if I'm repeating things...

You just sound really stressed out and being that you have children of your own to consider, I'd say it's just not worth it. You are a sitter to this child and you, as a hire employee, are responsible to reinfornce and abide by the rules that the mom sets...I mean, you wouldn't want to hire someone to watch your kid and they don't follow the same rules that you do. (minor differences are one thing, but major behavioral issues need to be treated in a consistant manner). In other words, it's not your job to parent this child...it's not your job to teach manners, nor is it your job to try and get her ready to transition into school, nor it is your job to work out any sibling rivalry that's going on. Those are the mom's job.

I understand from reading your post that you feel strongly that the mom isn't disciplining the child at home and that is a the reason that you cite for why she isn't responding to disciple from you either. I assume that you've discussed this problem with her mother? But again, even if the child is spoiled and demanding...it's not your job to try and change all the rules from what she has at home.

Homedaycare must be hard, I haven't done it but my mom ran a daycare in our home my entire childhood and so I do know how it can change the family dynamics. I would say don't take these kids again unless you and the child's mother can come to an agreement about a consistant manner in which to deal with the children. You need clients who have a similar disciplinary style to your own, clients whose children are going to be hearing the same things at home that hear from you at daycare, you need to be able to discipline the children you are babysitting in a consistant manner to what they are getting at home...and for the sake of your own family and children, you need that manner to be consistant, or at least not conflicting, with the way you discipline your own children. If a sit down with the parents of the kids you watch isn't fruitful, then I would say to politely tell them it's not working. It's not worth getting this stressed out over someone else's kid's problems...lord knows that our own kids are stress enough, lol!

Take care,
Krista, 35 SAHM
DD 17 months
ttc#2

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iVillage Member
Registered: 10-11-2005
Tue, 04-17-2007 - 6:56pm

I agree with you Krista.

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Registered: 10-16-2006
Tue, 04-17-2007 - 7:54pm

I used to think I had the patience of a saint, but not anymore LOL. I think I've used up 10 years worth of patience this school year alone!

I honestly try to mind my own business as far as their home life is concerned. If I am there and I see 4 yr old do something and blame 5 yr old for it, I speak up. But what happens on my time off, I leave alone. It honestly wouldn't do any good to speak up about things. Mom usually just blows any concerns I have about anything off. I told her the baby had the flu for three days and finally on day three I called and said "he NEEDS to see the doctor TODAY!" and she finally took him. I told her the 5 year old had strep and more than a week later she finally took her to the doctor and surprise she had strep! It's always like that so I leave things alone unless they are sick.

4 yr old will beg me to put her socks on her or tie her shoes in the evenings. I refuse because she can do it herself. She will wait until mom comes and I've told mom about it, then ask her to do it and mom will do it! She undoes everything I try to do so I don't bother.

Sherri

Sherri ~ mom to Brooke and Tyler, wife to Randall and fan of Nascar's Carl Edwards

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Registered: 10-16-2006
Tue, 04-17-2007 - 8:03pm

Thanks Tarra. I guess I need to just stick with what I'm doing and try to find ways to de-stress during the day without screaming or breaking anything LOL. It's hard to be patient and calm for 8+ hours a day when you just want to cry!

You know I'm not sure if she's lacking attention or getting too much. The baby has definitely done something to her, but he's gonna be around for a long time and maybe more to come so she needs to get over it somehow.

Thanks for the support!
Sherri

Sherri ~ mom to Brooke and Tyler, wife to Randall and fan of Nascar's Carl Edwards

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Registered: 10-16-2006
Tue, 04-17-2007 - 8:49pm

I appreciate your post and respect your opinion 100%. However I have to say that I disagree with some of it.

"it's not your job to try and change all the rules from what she has at home."

I'm not trying to change the rules they have at home. That is not my place. However children are only children for 18 years. They will, hopefully, live as adults in an adult world for much longer than that. The world is full of rules and they are different everywhere. My children have different rules when they are at the grandparents. They have different rules at school. While I would allow them to talk or laugh loudly while watching a movie at home, I wouldn't allow it at a theater. Even as adults things are different each place we go. Dh might eat lunch at home at noon, but his lunch hour at work starts at 12:30. I might run around the house in my underwear on weekends, but I can't do it during the week when I am working. Kids HAVE to learn that each place they go has different rules and expectations and to adapt. Would I hire someone to watch my kids if they had different rules than me? It would depend on the rules. I would NEVER send my kids to someone's house and expect them to NOT behave however. I send them to public school knowing that they will have to follow rules that I think are crazy (No chewing gum, no bathroom breaks, etc). I send them to grandma's knowing that they will get to do things they don't do here. When my children were small and I visited someone's home with them, the first thing I would say was "this is YOUR house. If my kids are doing something you don't allow or messing with something you don't want them to I won't know so feel free to tell them to stop!" Now I tell parents to make them behave and not let them do anything they wouldn't let their own kids do! When we are in someone else's home I fully expect my kids to abide by the rules of THAT house and it's owners.

When d/c child is at preschool on Monday, she has rules and she has to follow them. If she were still going to the daycare center full time there would be rules that she had to follow. No daycare center or home provider that I know of lets the parents set the rules. Schools, daycare centers, etc. all have rules of their own and the kids must follow them. Can you imagine a daycare center with 40 or 50 kids each having their own set of rules just like at home? In my opinion, home daycare should be just the same. We set the rules and they follow them. And mom was told all the rules before I took them on. To be honest, I am a very old fashioned parent. In this day and age there are very few people who parent like dh and I do so finding d/c kids with the same rules at home would be hard to do!(I volunteered in the school system for 10 years and I know for a fact that most kids have few if any rules nowdays)

And honestly, one reason I want to keep them again next year is because I AM the only consistent thing in their lives. In a way I feel like everyone has given up on her. She throws fits if she doesn't get her way so mom and grandparents, etc. give in to her because it's easier. I don't want to be the one to give up! I have no problem with the other two kids minding me, it's just this one. I have mentioned a few things to mom in the past, but she just tells me that it's my house and to make her follow my rules. She has no problem with me putting her in the corner, etc. She and d/c dad are both really good about telling her that what she did was wrong(if she's in trouble here) and telling her that she MUST obey me. She doesn't expect me to let her run wild.

Daycare is HARD! If all three acted like this one, I would give them up in a heartbeat. But I'm very very attached to them all. I've had that baby 40+ hours a week since he was not quite 3 months old. He's done so many "firsts" here with me and his little face just lights up when I go in to get him in the mornings. The 5 yr old and I have the most amazing conversations. She's really mature for her age about alot of things and can really carry on a conversation! She makes me really think about things! I don't want to give them up, I just need some ideas on how to make things easier on her and on me!

Thanks for your post and taking time to answer me! It helps to just be able to vent sometimes!

Sherri




Edited 4/17/2007 9:19 pm ET by fan_of_edwards99

Sherri ~ mom to Brooke and Tyler, wife to Randall and fan of Nascar's Carl Edwards

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-16-2006
Tue, 04-17-2007 - 9:06pm

See there is the problem.....I don't have a problem with the other two at all. If I tell the 5 yr old to do or not do something, she minds me. Even the baby listens to me(well most of the time. He has been known to occasionaly throw his head back and giggle like a madman when I tell him no). I can get him to lay still for diaper changes while it's wrestlemania with mom. I can get 5 yr old dressed and to do things while she screams and yells when mom tries. It's not my rules vs. mom's that's the problem really. Although if she were made to behave at home and not always babied it would help things here. It's how this particular child is wired and what I need to do to cope with her. If I did have a problem with all three I would know it was me and I'd give up. But she is just a different kind of kid and that's what I need help with. How do you deal with a high strung, stubborn kid whose having some emotional problems at the moment?

Thanks for answering! I appreciate it!

Sherri

Sherri ~ mom to Brooke and Tyler, wife to Randall and fan of Nascar's Carl Edwards

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Registered: 10-11-2005
Tue, 04-17-2007 - 10:27pm

Sorry, I just got the impression from your initial post that you were at your wits end.

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Registered: 01-31-2006
Wed, 04-18-2007 - 9:08am

Golly, if picking out your kids clothes and controlling when and what they eat is spoiling them, lable mine spoiled. Mine get along great and I get compliments on thier behavior all the time, though, so I'll assume they still have a chance to grow up to be contributing members of society, LOL.


I agree with pps. I'm sad for the 4yo, but you can't do anything about her homelife and shouldn't be expected to put up with that kind of stress. I wouldn't take them on next year, if it were me. You probably could find another child to take on in their place if you still wanted to provide daycare services.

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