Dansfoxywife:

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Registered: 09-11-2003
Dansfoxywife:
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Tue, 05-23-2006 - 12:10pm

Response to your questions:
I think it is a matter of not only opinion, but symantics. We don't see what we do the same way. Even though we are both considered "SAHM", we clearly don't have the same "job".

I am a stay at home mom. I see my job is to focus on care for the children, provide them with meals, education and care while my husband is away at work. That in itself is more than a full time job. It is not my job to do all of the cleaning, cooking, "after hour" childcare, etc...I feel a home is a shared environment and see it as extremely sexist for one to say something is a "man" or "woman's" job. I am constantly involved with my husbands career, so I don't share your opinion in that regard. I attend functions with him, provide invaluable advice, am a sounding board and have gone to his work on many occassions to assist (whether it was choosing what real estate would be good for a new building or simply filing). I still provide some occasional services for the company that I am not going in to detail about. Before becoming a SAHM, I helped run the business doing sales, purchasing, training, a/p, a/r and more so I have extensive knowledge of the business and industry. Work and home are commingled here. We are partners in every regard. Men and women equal. That means we both contribute to work and home.

To define what I meant as "help", I mean cleaning the house, yard work, paperwork, playing with/watching the kids, and everything else that is involved in being part of the family. Not simply picking up after one's self. That is a given in our home.

When I said helping me, I could have certainly used different wording and said "helping with the house and children". That would include anything that is done in, on, outside of and around the home.

And my husband certainly knows how important it is to cherish his family and to love us. While I see that is the most important aspect, we choose not to ignore that we are both fully capable of being involved in other ways. It does not diminish or change that.

I simply wanted to know how the division of labor works in other's households. I'm not looking for critical or caustic responses. There is a difference between that and being less than humble. Regards.

Your post:
"And if anyone could tell me how much their husbands help so I can show mine... that would really be appreciated!"

I might be getting to technical here, but what do you mean by "help"? Being a SAHM is my job, and the caretaking of the house goes with it. I don't go to DH's work and help him do his job, why should he come help me do mine? HOWEVER, that being said playing with our children, while being of "help" to me so I can, say, make dinner, isn't considered helping me, it is him being a daddy to his own kids. And, I don't go into his office and throw dirty clothes on the floor, leave soda cans and dishes laying around, and generally make a mess for him to clean--so Dan doesn't do that in my "office" so to speak by doing those things at home. That is just flat out disrespectful with a tone of hostility in my never-to-be humble opinion ;-). Dan also is in charge of yard work, auto maintenence, and "manly man" projects around the house, but I don't look at that as him helping me, it's him being a man, my man, my husband, and a daddy to his kids.

Is that what you mean by help? Because by all means show him that as a Man (deserving of the capital M) his success is measured in his ability to make you and the children feel loved, adored, and cherished above all others and other things.

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Registered: 03-09-2006
Tue, 05-23-2006 - 1:24pm

I don't understand why you are offended and hostile. My reply was neither critical or caustic. It was my account of the division of labor in my house.

I think we agree on the things a husband and father should be doing, i.e. "cleaning the house, yard work, paperwork, playing with/watching the kids, and everything else that is involved in being part of the family". The only difference I am picking up on is I don't view those things as him helping, as though by doing those things he is somehow doing me a favor. For example, feeding Christopher while I make dinner. Sure, technically it helps me because I can't do both at the same time. But he isn't helping me by doing it, he's being a daddy by doing it. Daddy's feed their child. If he plays soccer with Caroline outside and I take a bath, sure, technically it helps me because I can relax and not have her barging in the bathroom bugging me. But he isn't helping me by doing it, he's being a daddy by doing it. Daddy's play with their child. While those things are *of* help to me, they are not helping me, they are him being a productive member of the family.

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Registered: 01-31-2006
Tue, 05-23-2006 - 1:43pm

You know, I find it interesting that you chose to post this the way you did. It looks like it should be addressed to Kate down in your origional post, not headlined in this way at the top of the heap.

Anyway, I just don't see what's insulting about her post. She responded to your post as you requested based on the information you supplied. Posting can be hard sometimes as there is no way to hear voice tone and personality to go with it. Kate is very active in chat and that has given me a better understanding of that aspect of her, therefore I read her words differently than you would, maybe. It's my intrepretation that she meant nothing insulting by what she wrote.

It sounds like your homelife is a bit more complex than mine. Real estate can be all consuming and I'd imagine that it can be very stressful and it's great that you're able to support and help your dh and I hope that he comes around and does the same for you.

Good Luck,
Erin

Erin

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Tue, 05-23-2006 - 2:07pm
I could see how you found Kate's(dansfoxywifes) post a little critical. My dh's job is very demanding and when he gets home from work he still has to work from home. SO, I have to ask him to help me a lot during the week, he usually just doesn't volunteer unless I ask. It is very hard, but we work it out.
Which is fine, I understand his job and with him being our only income, I can't complain. On the weekends he does things without me asking. I think everyone has very differeing opinions on this subject matter and it is sensitive to most people. I just wanted to let you know how I felt and don't feel like you were attacked.
Kate

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Tue, 05-23-2006 - 2:15pm

I responded to your question directly. You wanted to know what I meant by help. I'm using it in a literal form. To be of assistance to, to support, to promote advancement, etc...in regards to our home, our children and each other as spouses.
Like I said, it's seems just a matter of semantics. It sounds as though you have got things down pretty well in your home. I was looking for advice as we are still trying to find our way. I imagine it being a process that will continually evolve over the years as needs change and we must adapt.

Also, Using all caps in an email is considered a form of aggression. Coupled with your statement below, I found the email as caustic and less than helpful in my situation.

The statement below could be seen as critical. It wasn't given in the form of advice, but rather telling what needs to be done.

"Because by all means show him that as a Man (deserving of the capital M) his success is measured in his ability to make you and the children feel loved, adored, and cherished above all others and other things."

Hope that sheds some light on your question and how the response may appear to someone who is not used to your particular writing style or patterns.
Regards

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 05-23-2006 - 2:17pm

I'm jumping in here where I'm probably not wanted to say that it seems to me both of you are kind of saying the same things, but with different approaches. Perhaps you see eye-to-eye more than you think!

Now here is my unwanted 2 cents on the subject at hand: ITA with lovetwins2003 that <> and <>

Marriage is a partnership in all regards. In my home, my husband helps me with everything while he's here. He cooks, cleans, bathes and plays with the kids, does yardwork, pays the bills, etc. It is an equal division of labor when he's home. When he's at work, of course, it's all up to me. But he lives here, and he's a parent too, and he's my partner, so he works willingly to make things run smoothly. I think that is the mark of a true Man with a capital M, something that I can proudly say that my husband is. I think a pitfall in a marriage could be where you say "This is my job" and "This is your job." Everything is shared in marriage, IMHO. I don't think there is that separation. Marriage is too bonding a thing for there to be division like that.

I also agree that his career is not separate from me. Like lovetwins2003, I provide him with support, am a sounding board for him to "vent", and listen tirelessly to all the ups and downs of his day at the hospital. And I want to be there for him in that way. Just as I am for him, he listens to all my woes and complaints about how the kids fought, the girls wouldn't pee in the potty, Matthew had a fit about his homework, they spilled juice, etc. etc. We recap for each other what transpired in our absence. (We even have a name for this that he came up with: "Storing the data until we can download it" so we call it "The Download" :) ). While my complaints may not seem as important as his, because his job is such that he deals with heavy-duty issues a lot of the time, it is important to him because he is a part of it. And while I may not be with him as he works all day, his sharing about work is also important to me, because we are partners and a part of each other, and nothing one does is separate from the other emotionally. That's just the nature of marriage. Heck, if I can stay up all night comforting him when one of his patients dies, then he can get up with the kids in the morning, make them breakfast and occupy them, and let me sleep in sometimes.

It all boils down to Give and Take. My husband is my best friend, as well as my lover. By virtue of that place with each other, everything is shared and there isn't much--if any--separation. And that's marriage.

We also can't judge what goes on in another's marriage. I think that was Kate's point. What works for some, might not work for others. This is what works in my marriage.

I think you both might have been trying to say the same thing in different ways. Thanks for letting me high-jack your post.

Sofia




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Tue, 05-23-2006 - 2:24pm

Erin:
I'm not quite sure what's interesting about it. I was simply responding to a question given to me as well as discussing how I felt about the matter. I wanted to respond directly to the person who had questions for me.

Yes, you are correct. It is quite possible that someone who know's a person more intimately would have a better idea of what they were saying without weighing each word for what the text purely is.

Like I mentioned to her, that may be the case. It can be a matter of semantics and perception. I can only say how it looked on the end of someone who is newer to this board.

Thanks for your input
Regards.

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Registered: 09-11-2003
Tue, 05-23-2006 - 2:37pm

Sofia:
I agree whole heartedly. I believe most of us on the board share many similar feelings. Like I said originally, we just seem to have different opinions on what labor is for SAHM, where the lines are drawn between work/home, men/women. I don't want anyone feeling badly, so I wanted to speak up when I felt it was necessary.

We do have an extremely complex situation. I know you do to. My DH is not a Doctor, he is the COO of a business. We have a company that has been a family business for decades. Since he runs the company, there really aren't any lines that can be drawn and he has to always be available (as do I. I would do anything for the business) Because of this, work never really "ends" just as for me, SAHM never seems to end. It's at least a 12 hour a day job for either of us, and usually much more. And there is so much at stake to keep both "operations" here and at the office running smoothly. It's a juggling act to say the least.

Your post was most thoughtful and helpful. Like I've said, I'm just interested in how others adapt to similar challenges. I'm only here trying to obtain helpful support from people who know best what it's like to be in my shoes.
Thanks for your input. Regards.

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Tue, 05-23-2006 - 2:42pm

Finally, I would also like to offer an apology. I may have neglected to do so in previous messages.

If I misjudge the contents of a message, I fully apologize for doing so.

I think it is important that we are all able to communicate any feeling we have without feeling wrongly criticized, judged or otherwise. I certainly don't want to precipitate that behavior.

If I have done that, I am truly sorry.

Thank You

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Registered: 01-31-2006
Tue, 05-23-2006 - 3:11pm

First off, kudos to Sophia. I loved her post and what she said. I think she was right on.

Lovetwins, when I was new to the board there were a couple of posts I read that threw me for a loop. I can't remember exactly which ones, but they really hit a sour note with me. Not knowing the board members well, I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt and brushed off the bad feelings. I am very happy I made that decision, because these poster's are now some of my best friends. It was easy for me as a newbie, to not get the personalities or intentions of the posters involved, so I totally understand how that can feel. I hope you continue to post here and get to know us better.

What I found interesting about the way you posted to dansfoxywife was that by posting it in that way at the top of the heap you were not only attracting the attn of Kate but everyone else on the board, quite possibly trying to stir an unhappy debate. It seemed sort of like tattle taling to me. You could have just as easily posted that message down with the thread that was already started. Remember that you are just as new to us as we are to you, so it's just as easy for me to misinterpret you as it was for you to misinterpret any of us.

Erin

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Registered: 03-09-2006
Tue, 05-23-2006 - 3:41pm

I don't have the option of having bold or italicized words, so I use capitals to stress emphasis, and sometimes * on each end of the word to emphasize. I never was yelling and I appologise if it came across that way. The part of my post that you quoted:

"Because by all means show him that as a Man (deserving of the capital M) his success is measured in his ability to make you and the children feel loved, adored, and cherished above all others and other things."

was entirely meant as giving advice on what to show to your husband, because in your topic I thought you asked for things and examples that he could read from posts replying. That's why I said to show him. So in a way, I see that you are correct in that it was telling what needs to be done, but only because that's what I thought you were asking for. Something to show him to read. Sounds like that isn't relevent to your case because as you later state, he does.

Edited To Add:

Please please please don't think I'm attacking you, that's the last thing I want. In trying to explain myself so that you don't feel attacked I hope I don't come off as sounding attacking, I'm probably digging a deeper hole. Geez, I really am attached to my shovel I should add sparkles and maribou feathers! lol




Edited 5/23/2006 3:45 pm ET by dansfoxywife

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