OMG! Went over to the Stay@Home debate..

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-15-2003
OMG! Went over to the Stay@Home debate..
31
Thu, 03-18-2004 - 2:03pm
I had this theory that I wanted to test out....see how the women responded. I'm going to post it here to see what you all think as well. As you can imagine, it was NOT well received. But, I must say, I've been in some heated discussions on this board and the women here are NOTHING like the ones that you come across on that board. Good god! What a scary bunch! And let me say, they sure have a lot of free time at work to post online! Ha ha!

Here's theory: Seriously, let me know if you think I'm nuts. It's just a thought.




So, I've been thinking about things lately...what's in the news, in magazines and books. Seems to be a connection here and if you will bear with me, maybe you'll agree, maybe you'll want to lynch me.

In the news:

1. America is FAT and getting FATTER, especially the kids.

What's to blame? Fast food and lack of exercise and too much tv.

2. Kids are misbehaving and out of control.

What's to blame? Lack of parental follow-through.

3. Teenagers smoking and having sex.

What's to blame? Lack of education.

4. Divorce rates constantly growing.

What's to blame? Couples "growing apart".

5. Stress is the #1 killer

What's to blame? Work, long commutes, kids and tv news

I guess you know where I am going with this, but if not, I can tell you what's to blame.

The lack of stay-at-home parenting.

Now hold on before you blow your top, let me explain.

1. FAT kids- hmmmmm...not too much of a leap here. Mom comes home harried from work. No time for making a healthy dinner! Let's get pizza. Or MacDonalds. Or Taco Bell. You get the point. Then the whole family eats (late, in front of the tv) and goes to bed. There was no time for exercise because kids were in latch-key (or just home alone snacking, like I did) and mom and dad spent the day working, picking up/dropping off and doing errands. If a parent is at home, there's a better chance that they will have the time to make a decent (i.e. healthy) meal. Also, there's less disposable income for meals out.

2. Out-of-control kids. Everyone knows a few of them, maybe more than a few. They don't listen to their parents, teachers or relatives. They yell "no", have tantrums, etc. Why? Working parents don't want to spend the 2-3 hours a day that they have with the child on discipline. Who would? So, instead of suffering any consequences, the child hears an endless series of "One...two...three..." without punishment. Yep. Disobedient kids needs discipline. It's hard work. Working parents don't want more work. They want nice nights at home with the family. At-home parents have the time and focus on the follow-through. Otherwise, the days alone with the kids would be hell without the structure.

3. Teenagers. This is the tough one. Even well-intentioned stay-at-home parents figure that once the kids are teens that it's time to "get their lives back" and start careers again. The kids have been raised right and they are old enough to stay home alone, right? Well, they are old enough to figure out how to sneak their boyfriends and girlfriends over, how to break into mom and dad's liquor cabinet, how to sneak smokes in the woods. Also, kids are going to break curfew and get into trouble. Who is going to be there to follow-through with the grounding of the child? Do you think that "no more phone", "no more tv" works when no one is there?

4. Divorce. No one should stay in an unhappy marriage. But why are all these marriages unhappy? Didn't you love each other enough at one time to get married and have kids? What happened? Well, even the working moms will agree with me on this point. Working moms end up doing EVERYTHING. You hear it all the time. They have to be the superwoman. They clean, they make and keep doc appts, shuttle the kids around everywhere. Do the laundry, grocery shopping, dusting. The resentment builds and builds. Then, one day it dawns on them. "I am doing this on my own anyway. Why don't I just have one less kid." Then, the husband's gone. Or, the husband had an affair (I was tempted to say husband OR wife has an affair, but you all know that it's the husband) because the wife never has energy for sex. Or has so much pent-up resentment that sleeping with her husband is the last thing on her mind at the end of the night.

Do stay-at-home parents have perfect marriages? Heck no! But I think that the initial involvement and committment to the family helps.

5. Stress. It's out of control, isn't it? All you hear: "Need more time, not enough hours in the day, 'How To Get the Most Out of Ten Minutes'". Working parents can't decompress and the kids feel it. The endless-motion-machine. The news tells you again and again how stressed you are.

This is what I posted (like a lunatic) on a debate board. Not one person even thought for a second that my theory could be possible. What do you all think?

Again, this is a theory, not a way of life or an accusation. Just some thoughts all came together one day and I thought, "well, maybe that's why...."

Thanks, Melissa

Meldi
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-08-2004
Fri, 03-19-2004 - 10:17am
***I think and believe that the reason for most of the decay in society is because we are fighting so hard to remove God from everything.***

Well- some are trying to remove God and others are trying to force *their* God down everyone's throat... (Not directing that at you :) I don't think that -either- do anyone any good. :)

***This country was founded on the Word of God and it breaks my heart to see people fighting so hard to get it out of our schools and our constitution.***

This country was also founded on the premise of freedom of religion... Not freedom of one religion... Frankly, IMO either -all- religions need to be represented in the (public) schools or none at all. No one religion holds exclusivity over morality and good choices of action :)



Wytchy

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-02-2003
Fri, 03-19-2004 - 10:52am
Melissa, Melissa, Melissa...

You are so wrong. What you don't realize is that some of the responses to your theory on the other board were actually from SAHMs. I myself have been a SAHM participating on that board. I am currently working a temporary gig, but my opinions and views absolutely lean toward the SAH camp. There is a debate that goes on over there. I am a newbie to that board, but let me tell you something. The women over there are primarily very respectful of CHOICE. All seem to be very active involved parents. You are making foolish assumptions based on one visit. Not very wise for a theologist.
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-15-2003
Fri, 03-19-2004 - 11:29am
Hi! I was wondering if there would be some traffic on this board from the other.

I didn't make any assumptions about the women on the other board based on my post alone. I've been watching for a while and they (the core group) treat everyone with a dissenting opinion the same way. Rather meanly, I must say. I have been called more names and told that "I wish I could tell you how I really feel but I would get kicked off the board" than I ever have on this board, even when I've been in complete disagreement with the poster. The hostility in their voices leads me to believe (even more so than before) that they feel insecure in their choice. Why else would they police the board in that manner? Keep watching the board. You'll see.

As far as the theory goes, I believe that the evidence is all around. I see it on the news, in magazines, in newpapers. I never meant to say that staying at home is the only choice. Obviously, no one is going to tell moms that they can't work. BUT, I believe that society has paid a price. Not only to the kids suffer, but Corporations suffer. Decreased productivity, sick days, etc. All due to the fact that women are exhausted. Tired from being up all night with a newborn, leaving early for a sick child, dealing with school issues and doctors on the company dime. I don't believe that a working mother is performing 100% at either job. As a sahm, I can get as close to 100% performance as humanly possible (and as the lack of sleep will allow).

I think (on the other board) that I saw posts from you and MAYBE 2 or 3 other sahm's. Mostly, everyone agrees on this board. It's just interesting to see. I must say though, that the women on the other board are misguided. They really don't (or won't allow themselves to) believe that staying at home is a choice that delivers great benefits to the child and the family. They think that saying that they are "involved" in their child's life (by what? cell phone communication? talking for a few minutes before bed?) is a catch-all. It's not. Nothing beats being there in person.

Thanks,

Melissa

Meldi
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-02-2003
Fri, 03-19-2004 - 12:09pm
You must be a fan of dr laura. Personally I loathe her and her there is only one way to raise a family attitude. Society has changed there is no doubt about that. Families have changed too. Years ago people stayed in abusive unhealthy marriages because divorce was wrong. With positive change there comes some negative impact - in anything. The women's movement provided women with a voice. We now have choice and we need systems in place to support our choices. It is not the working status of women that has created all the issues you bring up. There are so many factors in modern society that have contributed to various social issues. IMO, the issues that we are dealing with today, are truly not alot different than the issues that have always been prevelent. We simply are more open about discussing them today. Yes, obesity is a problem. Our food sources have changed over the years as well. It is far too simplistic to say the problems in society are linked to mothers working outside of the home. Mothers having the CHOICE to work outside of the home has contributed to many positives in society as well. This is a narrow view and I believe that is why you were met with the response on the SAH/WOH debate board. The women on that board do not have a narrow view. You are totally wrong in your assessment that it is a WOH support board. Both views are adequately represented and the regulars (be they SAH or WOHMs, agree that there is one size fits all and that as women and mothers, we all must make decisions that best suit our individual families.
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-10-2003
Fri, 03-19-2004 - 12:32pm
As a SAHM I fully disagree. All those things are completely attributed to the commitment of parenting. Not whether or not a parent stays home. I have SAH since my son was born and wouldn't have it any other way. HOWEVER, I know that the choices I make as a parent (especially with regard to your list) are based on who I am as a parent and an individual - NOT my work status.

I always am amused when I am with a group of SAHM and the conversation migrates to SAH and the benefits. (because since I am a SAHM it is assumed I will agree) And when, envitably, it goes to the lynchmob thinking that downfall of society is because of WOHM, I am always the one to bring up the disenting opinion.

There are PLENTY of SAHMs who contribute to your list of downfalls.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-10-2003
Fri, 03-19-2004 - 12:39pm
Yes, so who knows? Apparently the misbehaving kids of wohms theory is starting to falter with the examples of you two. And my guess there are just as many misbehaving SAH kids as there are WOH kids. As well as just as many SAH kids who eat fast food as WOH kids that eat fast food. Like I said it's the COMMITMENT to parenting, not a person's work status.

sun n sand (SAHM to 4 year old DS)

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 03-19-2004 - 12:48pm
while your theories are interesting they dont hold much water, nor do they seem to be based in reality.........

kids are getting fatter - perhaps - i think alot of that is due to lack of exercise, and the fact is that parents are too afraid to let their kids go out to play, unless they are right there with them, and how many parents, regardless of work status have 4-5 hours a day to spend outside playing with their kids. as to eating out, check out your local mcdonalds any day of the week at lunch time - they are crammed with moms and kids, most of whom we can assume are sahm's, since it is in the middle of a traditional work day - lunch time is the busiest time of day for fast food places. as to wohm's not being able to provide healthy meals, that is just a stereotype, healthy meals take no longer to prepare than junk food meals.

out of control kids - sure we have all seen them, and probably have some that are out of control at times. i guess i could buy you argument if it were only kids with wohm who were out of control but as we all know they come from both sides, in equal numbers. i quit going to mom groups because the kids were so out of control and the moms wouldnt do anything to correct their kids behavior. personally i think it would be much easier for a mom to ignore misbehavior at home then it would be for a daycare where you have a group of kids.

teenagers - sure raising teenagers is tough, who said it wouldnt be. but you know i do expect my teenager to be able to follow the rules even when i am not around. certainly she is going to test the rules and even break some of them, and there will be consequences, but i dont wee where that has anything to do with ones work status. by the time kids are teenagers the difference in time spent with a parent depending on the parents work status is very small. i have a teenager and with all of her school and activity commitments there are many nights she is the last one to get home.

divorce - equal among woh and sah families. most dual woh families i know the dads do alot more than the dads in the families who have a sahm. ones work status has no bearing on their commitment to their family.

stress - i know i dont have enough hurs in the day - but its because i have three kids. time to decompress - thats a good one. stress is a very individual thing, what one person sees as stressful another is going to take in stride.

so, to sum up - if the things you theorize were only applicable to children of wohm's then your theories would be sound, but since they affect families across the board in equal numbers it seems to me there are other things at play than moms work status.

you seem to think it odd that people could post online while at work, is it equally odd that they could post online while their kids are home - the fact is regardless, unless you know each posters unique circumstance, how or when they post is irrelevant.

Jennie

sahm to 3

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-10-2003
Fri, 03-19-2004 - 12:49pm
So are you saying that ALL the parents that aren't involved with their children at you husband's HS are WOH parents. Because I find that very hard to believe! One of the biggest problems when kids become teenagers IS that parents become less involved. However that crosses across both WOH & SAH.
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-10-2003
Fri, 03-19-2004 - 12:52pm
As a SAHM I totally agree with you.
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-10-2003
Fri, 03-19-2004 - 1:07pm
I am a SAHM. And I agree that you are correct on one point. That lack of parental involvement IS to blame. However you are wrong to assume that ONLY or the MAJORITY of those parents to blame are WOHM parent. It cuts evenly across all segments. If you were to conduct a REAL study instead of your own little "this is what I think and see" theory you will see that it cuts through both SAH and WOH families.

Like I said before COMMITMENT to parenting is the key.