need advice and thoughts on how to handle..

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-09-2003
need advice and thoughts on how to handle..
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Mon, 11-04-2013 - 4:56pm

Hello all- again.

It's been a couple of years since i have been at ivillage. I am back. And need help again.  AND i did not realize there was a college board!!! 

Background - My dd is 19 and in sophomore year of college. Her first year was not good having many anxiety issues. She has a learning disability and really is about 1 year behind the pack- mentally/socially – but excellent academically. 

 We had not had a good sophomore- junior year of HS as she latched on to an controlling boyfriend that i could not get her away from and of course I became the enemy and she became sexually active.   After 2 years of this - they finally broke up and i thought i was finally out of the woods. Not so.  But the damage was done, and we had trust issues and other mother /daughter issues after living a Romeo /Juliet type of existence.

Enter boyfriend #2.... I thought he was a doll, (like i did with the first one too), and he is a doll... and maybe that's the problem. She knew him from HS and on the outside he seems "perfect" – smart, intelligent, cute, kind and she is in love with him, and he makes her happy and he is VERY respectful of us, her parents  ... sounds good?  (I was almost in love too!)

Here's the problem: I just found out that many of the things he has been telling us.. which seemed interesting or farfetched, may actually be lies. She met him in her senior year in HS, and all of her friends thinks he is charming and wonderful!!!!  Which we though too... until things started to unravel. Thy have been dating for 2 years now

First problem.. He is muslim.. not a problem for us,,,, but of course for his parents so since the beginning he has told us, his parents don’t know, and would not understand his relationship with our daughter, so we went along with trying to understand this issue, since it did also happen for both my husband and myself as well, when we were younger and wanted to date outside our faith.  We are not terribly religious and this really does not bother us. BUT... while we would drop him off down the block from his home, where he said he lived... IS NOT his actual Home - we just found out.  He claims his parents do not want him out after dark, and needed to be home by dark , so respectfully we would get him home all summer long... before dark.. my daughter nicknamed him - her vampire!  He told us, that his parents believe bad things happen after dark... but when he is college - there is no such restriction?

This all started to get weird after he told my daughter - HE had stage 4 lung cancer and stage 2 leukemia - back in July.. right before my dd’s birthday - lost a whole weekend crying over this boy and my daughters' love for him... We have truly come to love him - even though we knew he would probably break off with her eventually - (even thought she does not see or believe this). He told my dd he has 4 years to live… and he has known for 6 months already.

He told us he has cancer.. yet each week he would tell us that the study he is in, will be starting "next month"  (supposedly it started in Sept.) He has supposedly left college for "treatment" but his answers about treatment are very "read from a script" or do not make sense...... " they are treating the leukemia, because the lung cancer is not an issue right now"??????  WHAT!!!?  He claims he is ok with the radiation, and has not side affects but the drs will not let him attend college until he is better. Therefore he is taking a break from college, but visiting my daughter at her college whenever he "can",. I told several of my friends an coworkers who know this boy, and us.. and all say.. there is something not right, and all of this does NOT ring true.  When i press my daughter.. all she says is - you know what i know.. as he tells us all info... and he never looks or acts sick.

A month ago he visited my daughter at college and she asked us to  -  we drove him home and just before we dropped him off at the end of his "block" and while talking about his new permit... i asked to see his funny picture which he kept talking about... (but i wanted to see his address....  the address on the DMV permits was NOT Seneca Rd., like he said.. it showed Flanders Ave #2....WHAT!    SO we dropped him off in the spot he wanted.. and waited.. to see if he went down to Seneca. Guess what. first he was watching our car - so we had to move.. and his watching us let us know... he was up to something.  After turning around the car to go in the other direction.. we saw him going away from Seneca and going in the direction of Flanders!!

A few days later while he was visiting at my daughter's school.... my husband checked the mailboxes that are outside the building on Flanders  - and found out his name is on one of the mailboxes! His own mailbox?  Along with 2 other boxes with the same last name.

He claims his mother works in an ER in her Pakistani/Muslim Garb - and only treats women... and the hospital allows this - since she can't treat men (??)  And when I looked up his mom’s name, as she is supposed to be a dr with a NY license…nothing comes up on the NY Registry. She does not exist.

I asked him the Dr with whom is is getting treatment at the hospital.. that name does not come up either. Anything I try to verify.. I cannot.. and I cannot speak to his parents either.. IT is a win-win for him. Nothing to validate.

He has told us that his father, not only owns the Seneca house.. but others as well… and we believed him. Just last week I found 2 websites that will tell you the owner of a house… and according to them..His father is NOT the owner of the house on Seneca, nor on Flanders!  But he just recently told my dd that his Uncle owns the Flanders building.

So.. now my stomach is in knots… why is he lying and do I tell my daughter. And how much do I tell her. And will she believe us.

I have even told him – he must tell his best friend just in case he really gets sick, so my dd has a contact to know info.. but he claims he will… each time we speak.. he will, he just hasn’t yet.

The permit is the easiest thing,, as we can tell her that we saw this and it does  not make sense. BUT he can say he gets his mail at the uncles… and she will believe it…  (I want to see him actually walk in or out for further proof)

Every time this boy comes to my house to see her or visits for the weekend my daughters school – which is now getting to be almost every weekend since he is not at his school … I am getting sick and concerned. She now stays with her girlfriend who lives off campus – just so she can have him stay for the weekend.

I do not know what to say of IF I should say anything at all.. as she is 19 and will only kill the messenger if they have bad news.  I remember telling  girlfriends when I was younger that her boyfriend was cheating /lying/ etc and she hated me..and stayed with him anyway.. until they were ready to see the truth.. but by them.. I was the outcast.

This is my daughter…not a friend -  do I tell her that my husband and I saw the permit a month ago .. or not.   Do I tell her he may be lying about other things .. or not.   Do I have my husband tell her.. so that I am not part of this??  She may trust my husband more….  And then.. when to tell… do we wait for thanksgiving when she is home?  Or just do it when we see her next. Or wait till after xmas… so we do not ruin this for her…….

She is still putting school first.. and doing well, as far as I know.   I know her world will crash if she does believe us…. Or she will be against us again

I have also thought of having a friend ask for his permit in front of her to show her this info… and then discuss.

OR do we just fess up and tell her how concerned we are that he is lying –not just to his parents but to all of us too…

Part of me says it’s her life.. stay out.. BUT I believe he is a liar and what else is he lying about??… and she is an innocent and does not question anything.

Or do I stay devious and try to not be a target?  What to do??

One more thing.  A friend has mentioned that he may be involved with a muslim group or some jihad.. which may trump school.. If he has no reason to live - so i am VERY concerned... or stupidly buying into a stereotype and worried for not reason.

My husband - who says many of this make no sense... seems to also live in ignorant bliss.

So I don’t know how concerned i should be… or not to be, and only driving myself crazy... for now.

HELP!

 

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Avatar for suzyk2118
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-30-1997
Mon, 11-04-2013 - 5:57pm

Not sure how to answer - what a mess.  I think if I really felt things were flaky, but if it's not hurting your dd for now, I'd wait til winter break so as not to mess up how the semester is going.  But boy, exactly what to do about it...I guess I'd just hope your dd would figure things out as I know if I told ds anything about a gf he'd just defend her and it'd last longer.  Best of luck.

Sue

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-26-1999
Tue, 11-05-2013 - 6:01pm

Wow - this is a tough one.  I've been in a place where I was not happy with my dd's choice of a partner (whom she ended up marrying, then divorcing).  It's not a good place to be, because adult children have to make their own decisions.  At the same time, I don't think we have to be completely quiet and devoid of opinion.  Also, I understand the mother-daughter dynamic - BTDT too.  I think it would be OK to voice some concerns about some facts about this young man, while still acknowledging your dd's feelings for him - which you can identify with because you also have been very fond of him. 

First of all, to me, the license address thing would NOT be something to bring up.  Even though you see he lives somewhere else, many people have licenses from old addresses that haven't yet been changed.  The red flags to me are that, after 2 years he is still keeping this relationship a secret from his parents, and also the "cancer diagnosis."  After 2 years he should be coming clean with his family, and if he can't/won't, what kind of future will they have?  The health issues, again, if real would be generally out in the open, at least with her, to the point where if they are in a serious, committed relationship he would be telling her much more and even sharing details about his treatment.  So what it looks like is a 2 year relationship with huge "holes". 

I've done some secret "checking up" on things related to my dds and their significant others and honestly, in some ways I regretted doing it.  It puts you in the terrible position of having information you can't do anything with.  I would not share with your dd that you have done any of that because that will surely upset and alienate her.  My suggestion would to find a time to sit down with her and just be honest that you see some red flags in this relationship and state the obvious ones that she can't deny.  Then ask her what she thinks, and ask her where she sees this relationship going in the future.  Remind her that you have also been very fond of her bf and that you totally understand the things she loves about him.  Tell her that you know it might be hard for her to hear your concerns, but because you love her and want her to be happy, you owe it to her to be honest about your feelings.  And after that, if she blows it all off- you're done.  Be there for her, continue to nurture your relationship with her, and in the end if the s*&% hits the fan, she will know she can come to you for support (and if that happens, no "I told you so's!"!).   If you talk to her honestly now and she doesn't change anything, at least you've planted the seed for her to think about it.  She may be more aware of inconsistencies in the future and come to her own decision in the end.

Hope others chime in - you may get a lot of different opinions!

                        Calmama54, from the beautiful


iVillage Member
Registered: 01-09-2003
Wed, 11-06-2013 - 8:03am

thank you for your posts and info..

I agree with Sue.. I am going to bide my time and wait till winter break, when she is not under pressure, and hopefully can hear the information i need to give her better.

While i understand your not thinking that the address is important... It IS very important in that he has told her AND us many times.. that he does indeed LIVE on that street... which will possibly show her (and us) that he lies about both big and small things. If i do not bring up the address... I will (according to her i am sure) have had NO reason to not believe his cancer story and i will have had a base of WHY we started trying to validate the information in the first place.... When someone lies small... they can also lie big..

I also spoke to the therepist last night (which we both see individual, and in the past together) and she is also concerned- as his answer for why he does not need to tell his parents is ... "He will be dead in a few years.. so therfore the relationship really is not going to go anywhere and they do not need to know! ".... We think he can "mysteriously die" or move to London where he once said he would like to move.. and be gone...my daughter.. not being allowed to speak to his family... not having any other friends that were originally to know of his sickness.. and originally she was not even to tell us.. her parents.. He almost had all road for her closed to check or validate any info... AND we would not even KNOW which house was his.leaving him smug... i am sure. 

I would like her to know.. as i have alwasys told her.. to always check facts... and to really get to know someone..you need to know where they live and HOW they live.. (we even discussed this re: Kim Kardasian with her last husband.. and how he had several dogs.. and did not really know this fact untl she went to his house... and saw for herself.. We discussed how this would be a problem animal lover vs not.. etc...PS.. they got divorced! )

Her counsler believes we should tell her about all of the checking we did to validate all of the information we have - showing her - we are not making this up (like he does) and we have proof (except for the cancer issue) that everything he has told us.. where he lives . what property his father owns(not) what dr's he's going to.. even his mother ( dr not registering in NY) are all things that she should know are NOT TRUE>.. so she can question HIM..and herself.. as she has seen inconsistancies.. but could not put the info together. i.e.. He told us while in the car one day that his mother has 2 cars.and drives to work herself.. He told my Daughter that she takes the bus...  she jumped on the car info right away saying " i thought you said....."  but he always has a slick answer, and now that i am more aware.. I see that... I did not see that before.. I just believed... like see is doing... Like anyone would do.... IF they had no reason to think the other person is lying..

He also claims to not be in school.. or registered.. but he keeps having to go back to school to speak to the guidence counsler ...etc. And since she is in school...M-F... she is busy with her own studies... and he knows this too.

And he does share his treatment information... all textbook stuff... He must have read good. She even asked him to take a picture of him when he is in hospital.(did not know she asked this.. which tells me something too.) He brought back and showed her.. and she asked him to show me - the picture.. which i could NOT place.. Strange bed -one .. with strange furniture.. could be a treatment room..could be a dorm..nothing stuck out to say what or where this was... very strange.. But she does encourage ME to ask him questions... when she is there with him.. and when i ask how things are going..she says..you ask him... he keeps telling me the same ... 

As far as the future... She is convinced he will die in 4 years.. as his word is good.  and she plans not to worry till year 2. ( we are only in Month 11.. according to them.) She believes he is in denial.. but then.. so is she.

Did he do this to lock her up emotionally?  I do not know.  She is VERY loyal and totally in love....  

I am truly so sorry that this is not a real love for her... and don't really want to be the harbinger of bad new/info..

But i feel.. the information.. speaks for itself.. and she should know..

You are correct.. sometimes information is NOT good and bad to know... BUT i did not go looking for this.. he started this.

Thank you SO much for your help and support.

 

Avatar for suzyk2118
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-30-1997
Wed, 11-06-2013 - 10:04am

(devious hat on) What if you suggested she surprise him with a visit one day?  Then when she goes to 'his house'....or does she not even know which one it's supposed to be?

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-26-1999
Wed, 11-06-2013 - 11:54am

Waiting to talk to her until she has a break, so that she can keep on track with her studies, makes sense.   I also wasn't aware that she and you were seeing a therapist together in the past, and that you still see the same person now.  Given the therapist knows your dd and how she would react, and she is advising you to tell her everything you have done regarding checking up on him, I guess I'd go with that.  You and your therapist know your dd and I don't.  I just know that my dds, especially my older one, would have a real problem with my checking up on their boyfriends, and it would probably cause significant damage to our relationship.  On the other hand, there are so many scary red flags in this case, you might just want to take that chance.  There is not any easy answer.  Good luck and let us know how it turns out once you've talked.

                        Calmama54, from the beautiful


iVillage Member
Registered: 05-27-1998
Wed, 11-06-2013 - 2:04pm

All of this adds up to one thing in my mind: that this guy is a pathological liar. And I would want my daughter to see this for herself and to recognize that she is too valuable to settle for someone like this.

I don't know anything about your relationship, but if my daughter were dating this guy, I would gently and persistently remind her of the long list of inconsistencies in his story and ask if this is what love and transparency really look like? And I'd remind her that trust isn't built by credibly explaining away an awkward situation, but by consistently being exactly who you say you are. And this guy isn't doing this at all. It really doesn't matter what his motives are. He's just sick with lying and not a suitable partner for anyone.

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-23-2003
Wed, 11-06-2013 - 3:19pm

Oh, Montana!  My heart was pounding reading this.  I have some concerns about my 19 y.o. DD's relationship too, but nowhere like your DD's boyfriend.  I know your therapist says to tell her about your investigative work, and that's coming from professional experience.  But from what some of the other moms have shared, we know it ain't gonna be well-received by your daughter and can push her to him.  Does your daughter realize the discrepancies in his stories?  Is she defending/justifying his explanations?  At 19, she doesn't have the experience we have with daily life and how things really work.  I cringe at some of the nonsense I went along with back then.  It probably all sounds plausible to her.  Or hopefully she has some idea that things aren't adding up, but doesn't know how to break it off or isn't quite ready to. If she's oblivious to the inconsistencies, maybe you will have to plant that seed of doubt in her head and tell her what you've found out.  And of course she's going to tell him and he won't be happy either.  But this does have to come to a head really soon.  I don't even want to go there with the jihad stuff, because that is just another level of insanity-for lack of a better word.  But aside from that, this level of lying is more than a red flag, it's psychopathic and dangerous.  I'm praying for a good outcome for this.

Sorry for rambling.

Is there any way you can do a background search on him?  I really don't know what, but maybe try googling him.  You never know what may turn up.  Alas, it may be that there is nothing you can do but wait it out.

Avatar for sabrtooth
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-03-1999
Wed, 11-06-2013 - 8:55pm

If  "...She even asked him to take a picture of him when he is in hospital.(did not know she asked this.. which tells me something too>>>" then she has some suspicions.  However, all anyone has is suspicions, and innuendo.  Stop tip-toeing around, and hire a private investigator.  The cost is NOT as high as people assume, and since this guy has given conflicting information already, it's not like he's a mastermind.  It won't take long (and therefore, won't cost as much)  to find the truth. Then you can address your daughter with FACTS.  And if by some miracle he is legit, you can show her that too.  And whichever way it plays out, show her the facts and then shut up. 

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-09-2003
Thu, 11-07-2013 - 8:06am

thank you all for your replies, and support..

yes this is a crazy situation, and one that I never thought I would be in.

Please remember - this boy lives in our town, and she has gone to school with him - he is not a stranger.. so orginally everything he said.. seemed to be honest and real - and i never would have checked ONE fact.. until things started to not make sense to me - in my logical mind.. and i have done detective work in the past - in my own life... My mother...when my parents were in the middele of a divorce.. my boyfriends.. - when i believed they were cheating or dishonest.. my girlfriends... if they needed help with boyfriends.. etc... 

Once i felt something was up.. yes i googled the hell out of his name and everyname he gave me.. with not much luck. First his name is too commen in muslim circles.. like John Smith...... 2nd  only recent HS and college stuff came up...

I am no thrilled at telling my daughter i have done this research.. but if i do not... the only thing i have is the permit.. and he CAN say that he gets all mail at his "uncles house" which he claims owns that house.  Since home ownership is public data - I was able to find out the owners names of both houses.. the one he "lives" and his "uncles" and neither one is owned by his father.. the name he gave me - and his "Uncles" him is owned by someone with an Italian Name... not muslim. 

If i do not share this with her.. my "case" gets very weak... and i think i need to share this info for her to question things as well

Also.. FYI.. my daughter has a learning disablility and while very intelligent on paper... very trustworthy, sensative, and does not understand alot of social things that go on.. she does not understand (for real) why people do certain things as her "logic" is wired differently.. and she has trouble seeing it the way the rest of us all do... (ex.. she things it rude that jobs do not call back to tell you, you don;t have the job - to confirm...makes sense in one way.. but they do not do this... it took me 4 days to get this through to her -that they ONLY call when /IF you get the job... UGH!!!)

She has social issues that go along with a learning disability that are not obvious.. so even she will state that she "NEEDS" him to translate some of the information at parties or social scenes .. and he "HELPS" her in situations.. and they have fun together...  IF she feels she NEEDS him... not good for her.. or ME...  and we have discussed haveing a boyfriend and NEEEDING.. but she is 19 and in her own world... sometimes literally!!! 

She does question things.. but again.. who doesn't know a girl or a woman.. who knows something is up...... but does not face it...

I need to tread lightly i know.. but i feel if i only tell her half information it will not be strong enough for her to call him a liar.   One or two lies.. can be dismissed.. but when everything starts getting shady... even she will need to open her eyes.. ( I hope)

I also think that during her break she will have other friends around to discuss some of the info we share with her, and have other input...

If she is really open... Yes.. we can set him up.. But if she doesn't .. ???????????

He has already told her, and my husband and I.. that him MOM will be very angry if she knew about Rachel.. and as stated.. we understoond that... and they have avoided movies and other events.. IF his sister was to be there.. and my daughter is fine with this.. and i am sure it makes some of it ... "more exciting"  and sometimes.. she gets really annoyed..

I was hoping this would be a natural breakup after time.. and would have let it go.. except for the lying that really bothers me.

I never really thought they had a future together.. but as stated.. would have excepted him - when i thought he was truthful!  He is really a charming guy.. always helping my husband or I  with fall chores,, household projects, and just being part of our family.. so this hurts me as well... and i REALLY don't want to tell my daughter... I am just thinking I really should.. and her counseler does not like "the situation" rather than the person... where i am getting mad at him lying to her... my heart.

IF i were to hire a private eye... i think my daughter would then get really upset... as all i have done so far... is GOOGLE all the info.

I also thought about contacting a police friend of mine.. and a friend that can get HS school info as well.. but i am waiting for now, and my use that as backup.. if she asks for more info.. or needs more than i can supply...

Yes.. she is also the one who asked for the picture..... things to not sit well with her.. but when you are in love.. you want to be blind.

 

Thanks ALL!!!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-14-2000
Thu, 11-07-2013 - 9:14am

I don't really have any other suggestions than what you've gotten but just wanted to send you positive thoughs - it sounds like a difficult situation. You seem to be on top of things and are acquiring information for if and when you do talk to your dd about it. Keep us posted! 

Pam

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