BP symptoms????

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
BP symptoms????
10
Thu, 05-22-2003 - 3:11pm
I read that some of you have kids with BP. I know the major signs of it---but what about those little signs you guys were talking about? Red ears? large pupils? What else? I've never heard that before.

I know I'm just fishing for any answers with my 3yo. He definitely is unstable in his moods--but he doesn't have the so-called "rages" that everyone talks about. My son goes thru "bad" days and "normal" days--(which aren't even "good" days). He will go thru about a 4-5 days cycle of everything sets him off and he will either be hitting, kicking, biting, or in time-out. He has never thrown a fit for very long----about 1-5 minutes. But within minutes--something else will set him off again. So he appears to be throwing fits ALL day long. Those are his "bad" days. His "normal" days are occas time-outs thruout the day for being aggressive or not listening. Climbs the counters, tips over chairs, has to make constant noise. But he will sit down and watch TV or color---if that's what he wants to do. Never plays with any toys. Plays with only non-toy items----strings, belts, cords, ropes. He will play with those for hours if given to him. He will listen occas and actually not explode when asked to do something or told no. Very loving and polite.

We have an appt in June to rule-out any autism.

I'm just trying to learn more about every disorder so I can be prepared if something really is going on with him.

As for family history---it's all on my dh's side. We are thinking that dh was/is undiagnosed ADD. His cousin is bipolar, his grandma is OCD, he has 2 cousins with LD's, an aunt who is an alcoholic, and some suicide in there somewhere.

Holly

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
In reply to: hollym4k
Fri, 05-23-2003 - 7:31am
Hi there,

Jamie is 4.5 and he is ADHD and Bipolar. What we were talking about with regard to the red ears is something they are looking into now with regard to temp regulation and Bipolar. It is now appearing that most children with Bipolar often have problems with feeling hot or cold at the wrong times. Jamie's ears are usually always red tipped when he starts to become manic, and sometimes his whole face turns red. You have no idea how many times he's been to the doctor for supposed ear infections when there was nothing wrong with him.

I must say, in his short life, being 3 was my hardest time for him. I think it's because his thinking processes were becoming more diverse but he did not have the words, or any self control to express his feelings to me. He continuously acted out. In fact there were times when he was hurling things at me I was actually afraid to be left alone with him.

I laughed when you said about the cords and stuff. Jamie did not play with one of his toys when he was that age, he's only started to play with them now. His fav things were ropes and cords, belts, spare stuff his Dad had laying around like valves and sticks and what not. His fav times were when we were renovating because he got lots of old stuff.

We have only now had doctors entertain Bipolar as well as ADHD, and I managed that by journalling. I journalled an entire month of his bizarre behaviour, and strange things he said. Jamie can be manic one day - completely out of control making no sense and barely aware of his surroundings (today for example unfortunately) or will wake up crying and cry all day with continuous meltdowns and self-hatred. We have the odd "normal" day when I almost forget he's on meds and stuff, and sometimes I can have all three wrapped up in one day.

When he was 3 I think he was on a continuous cycle of all these things every day. He is a very rigid child unless he's manic, then he couldn't care less what happens he's just out of it.

Anyway that's his story, don't know if you can relate to it at all, I hope you can find him the help he needs.

Elspeth

Avatar for kathy_in_ga
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: hollym4k
Fri, 05-23-2003 - 11:00am
MY son the pack rat! Every few months I have to clean out his room for all the string, tape, nuts, bols, rocks, things he finds in the street. He used to always play with these kinds of things. I even filled his christmas stocking with tape, string, washer, things like that, HE LOVED IT! He also makes his own toys out of these things. One time all he would play with was something he made tied together with long string. He took it everywhere. Other things he does is that he is very needy of me. Like if I go to his class he wants me sitting right next to him, not talking to other kids (or he thinks I like them better). He also does things like gets angry at the dogs for looking at him (this is usually a bad day). He will tell me the dogs are messing with him, like they are looking at him on purpose. We had a hard time with him when he was 3, but not DX until he was 4 & that was ADHD. Then we decided on meds & that started the hours of rage. He would get mad & very frustrated before, but not for hours. We found out that ritalin was not the med for him, neither is dexedrine. Adderall seems to be the only one that doesn't make him rage. We will try strattera this week just to see, the adderall isn't quite doing the job.

Oh thought of a few more symptoms. Joiner hates to wear clothes. He will run around the house naked all day long. Cute when he was 3, but he will be 8 soon. Another thing to look for is nightmares. Joiner would tell me about his & they were very graphic. Once he told me about a man holding him under water & letting a shark bite him & make him bleed all over. Another reoccuring one is someone chasing him with a knife & cutting him up splattering blood everywhere. Always have blood & gore in them. Joiner also has a fascination with knives, he cuts them out of magazines & keeps them in a box, or tapes them up. I have had to lock up all my sharp objects because of this obsession. BUT, he got a hold of a butter knife & cut up my couch. I found him once ,when he was 4.5) on the counter with a butcher knife rubbing his hand over the sharp end. He looked up & said mama one day I am going to die, this is when I locked them all up. Now ,with the right meds, he is no longer that facsinated with them. Still likes them, but not to the point where he tapes them on the wall in his room anymore.

Funny you entioned the counter, Joiner walks the counter all the time. I have finally given up on keeping him off them. He used to pull a chair up to them when he was 2.5 just to get on them. Coloring was not his favorite thing to do, if he did color it was always with a black crayon, so I took all the back crayons out of the box. I can tell what mood he is in if we color or draw. I had him drawing for somethng & he was very angry, used only red. I had colored a pretty flower & he used a dark gray crayon to scribble over my flower. You could say he was in a very dim mood that week. Now he is manic, so he will use all bright colors all over the place. Will fill the paper with wonderful vivid colors. He hate to color, loves to draw on blank paper. Timeout was not something we could use. He refused to sit in a corner, I would have to hold him down for him to stay there. He is now put in his room where he can't open the door for time out.

A good book for you to read is "The Explosive Child" By Ross Greene. It helped us reduce the stress in our house. The book is for anyone, but is geared for dealing with older kids (has some language in it quoting older kids). I found it useful in dealing with Joiner. Joiner's Kindergarted teacher alos read it. She said she then understood why he was so defiant sometimes. He had been suspended and I gave her the section on education, but she read the whole book. She said she realized that she added to his frustration. She was a wonderful teacher.

OK, this has gotten long, sorry about that! Hope I helped some.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
In reply to: hollym4k
Fri, 05-23-2003 - 11:26am
OMG Kathy,

That is too funny. I do the same thing. I get a garbage bag a month out of Jamie's room full of rocks, clothing tags, grocery receipts, string, tape, nuts, bolts, pieces of wire....etc....

He also has a thing about the cat. He'll come running to me screaming that the cat is bothering him because she looked at him, or rubbed against him. He told me that she hears what he's thinking.

There was one day I had to kick the cat out of the house because she was following him around and he went into hysterics.

Elspeth

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-01-2003
In reply to: hollym4k
Fri, 05-23-2003 - 12:46pm
OK Kathy & Elspeth now you guys are starting to scare me!!!!!!!

As you may remember Jessica my DD 8yo in a week is in the process of getting tested and we are waiting for a DX. She's currently on her 7th med Risperdal and it is a godsend for us. Unless we miss a dose at bedtime, then heaven help us for 2 days.

Her favourite toys are tape and string, I seem to spend my life pulling tape off clothes, walls, floors and the dog. She also complains (screams) that the dog stares at her on purpose too, she also gets the red ears, goes naked and wants to wear shorts in winter. She hates to colour and in grade 2 we are realizing that she may also have an LD, with all the different meds she's tried everything has improved somewhat at some point except her writing (copying from the board etc..). She just now is starting to colour in books at about a SK level, still has a hard time staying in the lines but much better. Her teachers have described her immagination as Bizzare and they used the words unapropiate 14 times in the forms they filled out for the tester. She basically has no executive functions and her longest rage has been 4.5 hours, of course that had to happen when my mother was visiting LOL. We also have a lock her her bedroom door so I have a place to put her.

Hmmmm, I have to wonder, I'm on meds for depression myself and I've always thought I was mildly bipolar.

We know she has SID, prob ADD as well, add in an LD and BP and oh what fun we have. Can't wait for the final DX, just hope I agree with it. We have an adults only meeting on Monday with the tester to go over any discrepancy's or questions he has prior to him giving us the final DX.

Susan

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
In reply to: hollym4k
Mon, 05-26-2003 - 8:23pm
You guys have been great help!! Thanks for your stories. It sounds like my kid--to a point. My son doesn't have nightmares--that I'm aware of. We had horrible sleeping problems that started at 18 mo old. When he got into his toddler bed--he would wander the house and get into trouble during the night. At about 3yo--he stopped that--that we know of. He is very quiet and about 1x/week, I will hear his door open and find him sleeping on the sofa. He probably does it more often and I just don't hear him. There has been times where we forgot to turn off a light in the living room and at 2am--I will turn it off, and he will wake up or was never asleep in the first place. His door is off of the living room. I've gone into his room before and he's been sitting up in bed, not doing or saying anything.

I've noticed in my son is that his moods are getting more easy to detect. He definitely has a sad mood. He used to always cry/scream only when mad. Now I've noticed he will cry and go to his room--not in a angry way--but more of a sad, heartbroken way. He's acting like an emotional teenager.

One thing my son did that someone told me was--he was at our sports club childcare and he didn't want to go in and was crying. Normally it takes him a few minutes and he'll forget about me. He was crying at the window for me and then all of the sudden they said he stopped crying turned his head around towards the other kids and had a weird smile and his eyes looked really weird. He's done that alot. He will be crying and all of the sudden--stop --and will look like a different child with a different personality in an evil way.

We have been lucky lately. He has been really good the past few weeks. Not "good"---but good for him. He's had his meltdowns but not lasting days--only incidences during the day.

We went camping this weekend and it went pretty well. We had to search for him alot. He will not stay at camp for anything. But he was in a general good mood--I think because we allowed him to ride his bike wherever he wanted. Of course we wanted him to ride only around the playarea--so we could see him---but he had the freedom. He rarely thru a fit this weekend.

Do your kids ever do weird things like:

I had to find my son today--when at camping. I found him by the pond looking at geese. I finally convinced him to come back to camp--without a tantrum. I gave him a shove on his bike and he stops--says he has to count the cars. So then he starts counting the cars. What on earth made him decide he HAD to count the cars? I waited. I finally had to go and put my bike back and walk to get him. Knowing he was going to be carried--he finally came.

But he does weird stuff like that--where you will be talking to him about something or doing something and he will change the subject or talk about something totally unrelated.

My mom noticed that he set up about 20 toy airplanes at my sisters house. He lined them up and each one had it's own place. Then he counted them. He never played with them--just lined them up and counted.

He also when in his coloring mood will only color one certain picture and with orange. No other color in the picture. I have hide orange before and now he's on yellow. He won't color with green or blue. Sometimes purple--but only for seconds--then he has to have orange.

I think my son has some OCD. Hopefully we will be able to rule-out anything on the autistic spectrum when we have our appt in June.

Thanks

Holly

Avatar for kathy_in_ga
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: hollym4k
Mon, 05-26-2003 - 11:09pm
You described my son in most of your post. Yes he has some OCD traits too. He is always getting into trouble for being off topic in class. The class will be discussing a subject & the teacher will call on Joiner when his hand is up & Joiner will come out with something completely off topic & off the wall. You can't stop Joiner at ALL when he is in the middle of somehting, he HAS to finish. I finally found out that a timer helps tis. I tell him he has 10 minutes, then after5 minutes I set a timer to go off & tell him he has 5 more minutes. Now sometimes this doesn't work, but most times it does. Joiner also makes his legos color coordinated. one thing he did when he was young that told me he was a bit OCD was while we were at a church fall festival. They had rings that you threw onto little pols. Well they were all colors, Joiner HAD to throw the right color ring onto the right color poll. Also, during his occupational therapists testing he had to string beads. Well Joiner decided that they HAD to be strung in rainbow order, thus slowing down his times test. Another test had blocks, well one was discolored & it distracted Joiner so much the tester had to remove the block, LOL. Hubby is picky like this too, so I am used to it.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
In reply to: hollym4k
Tue, 05-27-2003 - 1:45pm
I read alot about these kids talking alot. Mine really doesn't. He mainly screams and throws fits. Maybe it's his age--3yo. He does alot of noise making. Just to make noise. In the middle of a movie if it's been quiet--he has to scream out. He does talk to himself alot. He really never brings on a conversation to someone. He will ask questions and sometimes answer questions---but only with yes/no answers.

He never qualified for speech therapy--so I know he's OK with that.

He also likes to be alone. He seems to really get overstim'd fast when he's with other kids. He likes other kids--maybe so he has someone to hit, but he plays so nice by himself.

Like our camping trip this weekend. He was actually very good---as long as he had his bike and the freedom to ride it wherever he wanted. Other kids were around--but not right next to him. When he played at the play area--he started in hitting kids with sticks.

He just doesn't know how to behave and interact approperiately with others.

Holly

Avatar for kathy_in_ga
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: hollym4k
Tue, 05-27-2003 - 10:43pm
A HUGE problem we have had with Joiner is that he paralell plays, he would rather be by himself. It is a bit better now & he does interact more with kids. I had him in a socialization class with his neuro psych. The class had 6 boys ages 6 - 9 who all needed social skills & anger management. It went well for Joiner. He finally made is first real friend last year at T-ball. Funny thing though, the other child has been DXed ADHD/Bipolar too. They have a love/hate relationship. But it is a friend. When Joiner was 3 he didn't initiate any conversations, not even with other kids. He also constantly made noises.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
In reply to: hollym4k
Tue, 05-27-2003 - 10:49pm
So is the conversation thing an ADHD thing or bipolar thing? Do most ADHD kids converse this way?

Holly

Avatar for kathy_in_ga
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: hollym4k
Tue, 05-27-2003 - 10:59pm
Good question, I have no idea the answer. I have a hard time sometimes distinguishing between ADHD symptoms & bipolar mania symptoms. The psych says to look at other symptoms, like sleep, racing thoughts, risky behaviors. I also see my son eating a LOT when manic, he will eat all day long. Also he wont wear clothes when manic. Runs around acting like a drunk all day, laughing at silly things, being ultra goofy.