HELP!!!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-28-2004
HELP!!!!
9
Sat, 09-11-2010 - 12:09pm

I am new and hoping that someone can give me some insight on what might be going on with my daughter. Sorry this will be rather long. I have 2 daughters, K just turned 5, and X is 11 weeks. Let me start off by saying that K was this way before the baby. Actually before I got pregnant.
I am not sure when we started noticing problems with K. One month seems like years at this point. She started Kiddie Kollege last year and we thought it would help with some of the issues we were having. She wont listen to anything we say. We have to continue to repeat ourselves. Family members tell us we need to do something about this or that but never have any type of suggestion in helping. She is in Kindergarten and refuses to do her homework. We have worked for hours to just get her to write her name. She has 8 letters in her name, 2 being repeated. Anyway, we have been getting notes from the teacher saying she doesnt want to do her classwork either. Some days she has to set out of playtime because it takes her that long to do it. She hates to color and when she has to (most of K is coloring) she scribbles in all different colors.
Yesterday we took both kids to the dr. I took the DS for her to play while we waited. She had a fit when I put it back in the bag. Whining and screaming for close to 10 minutes. When she finally got over that fit, she started climbing the walls. She would get in her sisters face and trying talking to her. She would move the drs chair all over the room. She kept jumping off the step on the table and hitting the wall. She would sit in the chair and lean forward and backward to make this popping sound. We told her numerous times to stop, and she would just smirk and continue. After we left we were going to go eat but hadnt decided. She kept screaming "tell me what we are going to eat, if you dont I will start screaming". We kept asking what she wanted, but she wouldnt tell us. When we got to where we were going to eat, she kept crawling all over her dad. She would stand up in the seat and hit the light above the table. Again, we told her numerous times to stop.
We have tried all kinds of punishment. Nothing works. If we put her in time out, she will just scream till we let her out, or till she falls asleep. If we spank her, she will go into hysterics like we beat her with a metal pipe. She isnt happy unless she is getting her way. She wants her sister to be crying constantly. She doesnt want her to sleep when she is around. So, we are dealing with unruly K and colicky X. Not a good mixture. Their dad and I have gotten to the point where we get ill with each other because we are so stressed out.
Here is the kicker and where we are running into a brick wall. She is extremely SHY. We put her in dance class. She has been 3 times so far. She just stands there. She will not talk to anyone she doesnt know. She will not go play some where if there is a child she doesnt know around. She even has issues answering her teacher when she ask her a question. If she meets someone she knows in an unfamiliar place, she wont talk to them. We dont know what is wrong, but we know it has to be something. I dont see how this is just a "normal" kid thing. We asked the dr yesterday and they said that they dont start testing until a few months after a child turns six. I am not sure I can wait that long. I just want to help her, and I hope someone can send me in the right direction.

Thank you,
Jina

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-10-2007
In reply to: trudysasafrass
Sat, 09-11-2010 - 12:31pm

Hi, and welcome



I would ask( demand if you have to)

A child may HAVE ADHD, but it is not what they ARE. Never tell a child they ARE ADHD.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-28-2004
In reply to: trudysasafrass
Sat, 09-11-2010 - 12:56pm

Thank you. When we talked to the dr they said that we could take her to a center for mental health and they would do the testing. Since it was late yesterday evening when we got out of the drs I wasnt able to call them. I will call them Monday. I would think that they would have one of the drs you spoke of there.

Again, Thank you
Jina

Avatar for sabrtooth
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-03-1999
In reply to: trudysasafrass
Sun, 09-12-2010 - 10:32am

Even if she does have ADD or Tourette's or ODD, she STILL needs consistent discipline. Maybe even MORE consistency than another child might.
You say she was out of control in the Drs office. There were 2 adults present. I would have left the one child with one parent at the Drs, and the other takes Miss Monster home. She was screaming BEFORE you all went to the restaurant. So, why did you go? If you tell me YOU don't want to be deprived of an evening out because of her, I'd say, "How much fun was it anyway?

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What you have done by stopping her punishment(WHATEVER it is) when she begins screaming, has taught her that if she screams loud enough and long enough, she will get her way. She is controlling her teachers also, because she has LEARNED AT HOME, that if she is defiant, no one will do anything to her, and she will get her way.

Also, the behavior she is displaying is NOT shyness. It is defiance, and she is controlling you again. She stands there like a bump on a log, and you rush to comfort her, or you take her away from where she does not want to be.

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The FIRST thing you should do, is take her to an audiologist. Altho she may HEAR, she may not hear CLEARLY. She may not be able to PROCESS what she has heard, or store it, or retrieve it. This does NOT have to wait till she turns 6--because if she has an auditory problem, or an auditory processing problem, discipline alone will not help.

After you have determined the status of her hearing, even if she needs hearing or processing aids, you STILL need to discipline her.
Tell her ONCE, in a calm voice, and in a quiet atmosphere, what you want her to do. Have her repeat the instruction so there is no confusion over whether or not she heard you. If she refuses to repeat, or if she continues to misbehave, remove her from the situation IMMEDIATELY. If she screams herself to sleep when you put her in her room, oh well. If you are out and she misbehaves, take her home IMMEDIATLY, and put her in her room. The easiest way to avoid a meltdown, is to NOT take her anywhere till she has matured enough, and learned to restrain herself. There are two parents. One stays home with the kids, the other does the errands.

Talk to her teachers. Tell them you want to remove the SMALLEST possibility she has not heard them clearly, so you want them to seat her in the front of the room, and have her REPEAT the question she has been asked, or the instruction she has been given. If she refuses to comply, they are to put her in the time out corner. If she has hysterics, they are to send her to the dean of discipline, or send her home.

If you and your husband need a break, hire a babysitter. Tell her EXACTLY how to give your daughter instructions, and what to do if she disobeys.

Consistency, consistency, consistency. If she has a "shy" episode, or hysterics, and you take her home, take her HOME and put her in her room. If she acts out while in the doctors' or dentists' office for a check-up, stop the visit and take her home. If it inconveniences YOU, oh well. And do NOT take her for a soda on the way home because she has been so traumatized. That just rewards her for bad behavior. Have you ever watched Cesar Millan? He says to NOT give affection to a nervous or fearful dog, because that REINFORCES the fear. Instead, use calm, assertive energy, and repeat the command. Dogs need calm, assertive dominance, and consistent discipline. So do children.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-02-2004
In reply to: trudysasafrass
Mon, 09-13-2010 - 3:57pm

Hi, I hope that things are going a little calmer for you this week.

It really is hard to say what is going on with your daughter. In general, kids want to get attention from their parents, and would prefer good attention to bad, but if bad is all they can get by acting out, that is what they will take.

However...I think that some other things are going on here. If I were you, I would write a letter to the school asking for a full evaluation of your daughter - behavioral, learning disability and occupational therapy (that is for the difficulty with writing,) and anything else that they can do. Say that you are concerned about your daughter's behavior in school and that you want an evaluation to figure out what is going on before her behavior gets any worse in school. Hand the letter to the pricipal. They have a certain amount of time to get back to you and test her, but they should be able to come up with some stuff, including a behavioral plan, that can help at school and home.

At home - get that audioligist testing. Get the other testing done. Have her look at a page of letters and ask "are the letters doing anything?" If she says they are moving around, take her to an optometrist to get tested to see if her eyes are working together properly (this is different than focus.) She may not be seeing in double vision so some of the sensory things she is doing - the popping, rocking, making the baby scream, etc, may be because of her vision. If all of these things come up negative, then ask for a referal for a counselor - who will help her and you come up with ways to work together better. Keep track of when the meltdowns and behaviors happen - this will help you and the school and counselor see what is happening. It may be useful to keep track of food to see if dye, sugar,milk, gluten or any number of other things are contributing. (Her stomach may hurt but she doesn't know how to tell you. I know a ten year old who can't tell his mother when he is hungry - when he is hungry he has meltdowns. Once the mom figured this out she keeps a snack with her.)

It should not be taking 2 hours in kinder to do homework. There is something else going on here. My son was seeing in double vision, has fine motor issues that relate to speech and writing. The vision therapy helped him see normal (he couldn't tell he wasn't seeing normal because he didn't know any different.) Since therapy he has slowed down a lot, and doesn't hug everyone or put everything in his mouth to seek sensation. You may want to read the book "The Out of Sync Child" which goes into some of this stuff and may help you when you talk to the school and doctors.

Good luck - I don't think this is all your parenting skills - but avoiding having her in situations that make her uncomfortable may be helpful. This doesn't mean that you are "giving in", it means you are sensitive to her needs, even though it may make things more difficult logistically.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
In reply to: trudysasafrass
Tue, 09-14-2010 - 9:57am

I'd actually send you in a different direction, possibly as well as the medical diagnosis. If she's having that much trouble, I'd be getting her an eval at the school (you have to request in writing, etc., etc.). The coloring thing--honestly, that sounds like fine-motor issues to me, possibly. I'd also be talking to the teachers--if there's *any* chance the kid is actually ADHD, the last thing you want to do is have her missing running around! If the teacher is having trouble dealing with her & you don't have tips for the teacher, well, get the pros involved (evaluators), maybe they can figure it all out.

And, I'm not seeing any positive discipline measures? Lots of ADHD kids (and others!) don't really respond to negative measures--like you are seeing--but will respond to positive stuff. Sticker charts, that kind of thing. Pick a behavior (doing homework?), she gets a sticker for *whatever*, X stickers earns a reward (not necessarily money/new toy--my kids wanted adult time--doing a puzzle, reading extra bedtime books, etc.).

11 weeks & unruly new KG. Think I'd also prescribe a babysitter & you guys get out & relax a little, geez, soooo not easy, that!

Megan
Megan
Avatar for Cmmelissa
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-13-2008
In reply to: trudysasafrass
Tue, 09-14-2010 - 10:41am

(((HUGS))) It sounds like you are going through a lot with her.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-28-2004
In reply to: trudysasafrass
Tue, 09-14-2010 - 4:55pm

We have not stopped her punishment. We continue to punish her for unruly behavior. We have made her room the "crying" room. When she has a fit, she goes there. We end up having to carry her though because she wont move.

We live over an hour away from their Dr. There was no way that we could leave one parent with X while the other went with K. We have been having issues with X and both of us really needed to be in there to talk to the Dr so that all of us had the right information. I would have left K with someone, but being that she had an apt too, would be a bit hard. About the food, their apt was at 4, it was after 5 when we got out of there. I know we shouldnt have gone anywhere to eat. She has snack at school around 1, she hadnt had anything to eat since then. I try not to let her go too many hours without something because she doesnt eat much anyway.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-28-2004
In reply to: trudysasafrass
Tue, 09-14-2010 - 5:16pm

Thank you for your reply.

We try to give her 1 on 1 attention. Since X is so little, we get lots of time with just us and K. K doesnt want that, she wants X to be screaming. We have tried playing games, doing puzzles, reading, cooking, etc. She would rather whine about this or that than spend that time with us without X.

We tried getting the teacher involved in helping. We write weekly notes back and forth about her behavior. It just doesnt seem like her teacher can do much about it due to having 18 or so other kids to deal with. I didnt know that we could speak with the principal about it. I will certainly look into getting them to evaluate her.

We could do the testing with the letters, but sometimes K tells us stories. So honestly we wouldnt know if there was a problem or not there. I am worried she would do the same things with a 3rd party testing her. I just made her an apt to see the optometrist for next week.

Food...lol. The child rarely eats. It could be that she is having meltdowns due to being hungry. She was a small baby, I know not an excuse, but she has never been a big eater. We try to get her to eat every few hours since she eats so little. She has now become a picky eater and refuses to eat half the stuff she use to love. I ask her what she wants, listing all the things she use to like, and she is like "no, I dont like that anymore". If we fix it, she reminds us she doesnt like it and wont eat a bite.

Again, thank you

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-28-2004
In reply to: trudysasafrass
Tue, 09-14-2010 - 5:27pm

I would like to get away for a while. We just dont have many people around that can help out with sitting. I would not leave anyone I didnt know well with K. My mom and his mom live an hr+ away. My grandmother lives here in town, but she is 84 years old. If K happened to have one of her fits she could trip or kick my grandmother, so I dont leave her with her for too long. She has dance tonight, but I am not going. I am going to see if her dad will stay out of the room too and see how she acts.

I am not sure who mentioned the sticker reward thing but I wanted to let you know we have tried that. We also made a tree and put "apples" on them for good behavior and if she was bad she had to take them off. That worked for about a day and she didnt even want to glue the apples on. It was the same with the "stars" on a chart. She lost interest within a day or so. I guess we havent found the right reward system for her yet.

Thank you all so much for replying. I hope we are going in the right direction. We have the optometrist next week. We do have an apt to see someone about adhd next month.