Anyone else's kid do this?
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| Fri, 07-14-2006 - 6:59pm |
I'm just wondering if this is true for anyone else's ASD kids. The moments just before falling asleep and just after waking up seem to be triggers for weird stuff. David's typical stressed-Aspie behavior is inappropriate silliness, and that's what he does first thing in the morning and last thing at night (unless I give him Melatonin, which doesn't make him fall asleep quickly, but does make him fall asleep "normally")
For instance, first thing this morning, as soon as he opened his eyes, he shouted at the top of his lungs, "KICK MA BUTT KICK MA BUTT KICK MA BUUUUUUTTTTTTT." He's recently had a phase of not doing this, so I thought he'd outgrown it.
At night when that happens, it's when he's gotten comfortable in bed, has completed his monologue about Samantha the Pirate's latest mad science project, and is otherwise ready to fall asleep. He'll be all comfy and relaxed, and then all of a sudden he'll shout out some weird thing (which is just lovely at 10 pm, with his little brother in the same room.) When he does it at night, he can't calm himself down. I have to lead him into another room and let him read or write for a half hour or so to get him out of that silly place. (We read together before bed.)
Now I KNOW nobody else's kid does this stuff exactly--I'm doomed to be alone in this particular suffering--but does anyone else's kid do *some* kind of autistic-like behavior during the transition between sleep and wakefulness? To me, it really seems like a neurological thing, because he's done similar stuff since he was a newborn. I don't know, though. I brought it up to the dev. ped once, and she said she didn't know, but she'd call a collegue who knows about sleep issues. I think she forgot, though, because it was kind of a by-the-way conversation.
Oh, and while I'm at it, does anyone else's aspie get "weird" in water, like bathtime, paddling pools, watering the garden? If there is water involved, David needs constant supervision or there will be a huge mess and loud, obnoxious silliness. Consequences, reward charts, etc. have little to no effect. So, the 4 year old just gives himself a bath, and then when it's David's turn (he's 8) it's like I'm bathing an infant, because if I turn my back for an instant there will be a disaster.
That's about it. Just curious. :)
Evelyn

There are times when we've just finished a story at bedtime, the lights have been turned out and the bedtime music is on. I let my ds fall asleep with me there by him - and lately he's taken to rolling all over the place and hitting me. I was wondering if he was doing it just to make himself stay awake or if he is just overtired. He's really been fighting going to bed for the past few months.
He seems to have a hard time in the mornings - waking him can be hard and it seems it takes awhile before he is ready to get dressed or eat. He can be fairly clingy in the morning and likes to cuddle up with me and the cat in my bed. Mornings have always been kind of slow and he's always been more active at night - he was that way even in utero. : )
If I leave my son alone with water, sometimes he'll behave himself, sometimes not. I've left the bathroom on occasion when he was taking a bath and have come back in and the whole floor is covered in water. Several times, there was water on the ceiling. He loves water, loves playing in it, loves sprinklers, hoses, sprayers, you name it, if water is involved, he loves it! Sometimes, I will let him play in the sink or the tub as long as he wants. I can get quite a bit done around the house while he is occupied. I know there will be a mess when he's done, but I prepare for that ahead of time.
Lately, the only way he'll get cleaned up is if I let him pretend the bath tub is a car wash so he can be the car wash machine. This has sometimes been an annoying thing as he's come into the bathroom when I am taking a shower and screaming at me to stop because, "the car wash attendant is not here!" meaning he doesn't want me to take a shower without him in there with me! "Lord, give me patience!" is my mantra.
Hi Evelyn,
Warning: mildly graphic material (though probably not for ASD moms!!) to follow!!!
Eric doesn't do this upon going to sleep, but he definitely does it upon waking up. I hate it. When he was younger it was mostly angry, aggressive, "go away" slam the door kind of stuff. Now he wakes up wide eyed, euphoric, and will scream out something like "Acrobat! Penis!" Then he will jump up and down on his bed and whip it out then laugh while jumping. Lovely, I know. I just wanted you to know you are not alone. The transition from sleep to waking is weird for him and has been for about the last 2 years.
I never know what to do in these instances. I am human and since Eric is now waking up at 5 am (you saw my previous manic post) it's not the best time for me to be so patient. I usually tell him that I am leaving and to let me know when he is calmer and I will come back. Then I leave but keep an ear to what he is doing. He does usually "snap out of it" and want to get dressed and seems almost like a different kid. And this in probably less than 10 minutes.
This "penis" thing is new, as is waking at 5 a.m. and goes along with the whole summer manic problem. But he has had transition to wakefulness problems for awhile.
As for water, he does love it and splashes up a storm, but doesn't seem to go into that other inner really wierd world. However, sometimes, not always, he does it when alone on the potty. I hear all these strange discussions, singing etc. and when he's finished, he's fine.
Yes,it seems really strange to me. I don't know what to say or do about it because the odder parts are still kind of new, last few months.
Anyway, you and I probably need some time with the cabana boys I read so much about!!
But seriously, it is troubling to me. He has an evergrowing, really rich fantasy world and that could be good, or bad, depending. I mean, he's only 4, you know?!
Katherine
"Acrobat Penis"
OMG I am ROFLMAO!!!!!! I can SOOOOO picture that. Ok if that is a bit graphic for those not ASD moms then I guess I am just a bit TWISTED!
On the transitioning from sleep to wake, yep but it comes and goes. But tell you what, don't speak to me until I have had my coffee and at least 10 minutes to check my email. I don't transition well from sleep to wake either. And jsut TRY waking me up in the middle of the night. That was horrible when the kids weren't sleeping through the night. UGH.
For Cait and Mike they both need an extended time to become human and cannot be rushed in the morning without ensuing a meltdown.
From awake to asleep. Well my kids have a long history of the same bedtime routine so it isn't too horrible. The biggest issue we have is that Mike has to follow his routine to the letter or he will pace until all of it happens. He has to have melatonin. He has to have either me or dad tuck him in the with same good night saying. He has to have 2 dreamcatchers. If he has had a bad dream recently we have to blow all the dust off so they will work. Then he reads for a while. Then he goes to the bathroom usually in our bathroom, stands in front of the mirror for a while and washes his hands. He used to go to the bathroom 3 times before bed but we have reduced him to one. It doesn't matter if he doesn't have to go. And usually he will pace outside our room if we have told him to use his bathroom until we let him use ours.
The other night he had 100mg of 5HTP for the first time and he went to bed late and fell asleep before he read. OYE! You should have seen how much he obsessed on that the next day.
Renee
Edited 7/14/2006 10:47 pm ET by rbear4
Weston does very typical autie behaviors when going to sleep. He now understands that he likes to be wrapped up very tight so usually he's wrapped his blanket around himself so tight that he can hardly breathe. and he strokes his cheek w/ the back of his hand (like a cat grooming itself) until he goes to sleep. He also often does repetitive jerking of his whole body. He sometimes repeats the same phrase over and over (often whatever he's been reading in a book). We don't have the same issues when waking tho.
Betsy
Well, it's nice to know I'm not totally alone.
We do have a very specific bedtime ritual. The only thing that isn't constant is the exact time, simply because sometimes it takes two minutes to get David away from his current project and sometimes it takes an hour. So, anyone want to hear about our bedtime ritual? I'm totally leaving out the parts about his little brother, who adds a whole other dimension to it.
We go upstairs for toothbrushing. David HAS to bring some Lego things to set on the counter, and sometimes he has to find a piece or build something. He stands on the stool, which he hasn't needed for years, but he's got to stand on it, and he spits into the sink. Then he does a bit of acrobatic stimming while telling the story of whatever Lego thing he has built up. If he notices himself in the mirror, he makes faces, rude noises, or whatever. Occassionally he starts brushing right away, but usually there's this stimmy-talky stuff. Eventually, he gets the toothpaste and squits a HUGE blob of it on the brush, and then tosses it onto the carpeted floor. About ten seconds into brushing, he says, "Am I done YET?!" I say, "Do upper outsides. Now upper insides." You get the picture. When he's done, he says, "FINALLY!!!!" My sentiments exactly, but I try to keep my mouth shut.
Okay, then I have to tell him that his pajamas and Pull-Ups are on my bed and it's time to put them on. Yes, my 8.5 year old son wears pull-ups. I don't think he really needs them these days, but he insists on wearing them, and I haven't pushed the issue. He comes into my room and stims/talks for a while, then finally gets the pajamas on. Then either I or DH reads to him, usually for at least a half hour. Sometimes Nathan is with us, and sometimes he's in their own room getting read to by the other parent. Reading to David is very enjoyable. He doesn't stim or interrupt.
When we're done, I say, "Okay, I'm read for phone call whenever you are." We lie there in silence for a while, and then David says, "Can I do a phone call?" I say, "Please do." He makes a ringing sound. I become "David" and "answer the phone".
Me (David): Hello?
David: Hi!
Me: Who is this?
David: It's me.
Me: Tell me more, I don't recognize your voice yet.
David: Well, I'll give you a hint. My favorite color is green and I used to be a Toa.
Me: Turaga Matau?
David: Yes, it's Matau! And guess what? It's my birthday, and I'm having a sleepover party. Wanna come over.
Me: Oh, yes! I'll be right there!
Then I magically appear, and we go into the boys' room. David's character talks and talks about all kinds of stuff, and Nathan often announces that he is being a character, too. I say a lot of, "Oh, that's really neat. Oh, I look forward to seeing that." kind of stuff, and get out the door as soon as I can.
Whew! That's our ritual (not counting the part where we HAVE to have some kind of desserty treat so David can chase down his bad-tasting medicine.)
It's fine as long as I just accept that this is how it is. Once in a while I remember that when *I* was a kid, it was like, "Time for bed!" "Okay mom." I'd brush my teeth (having already bathed myself) and get into bed. My folks would come kiss me good night and that was it. If I stay calm, and just go with the flow, it's not so bad.
"I remember that when *I* was a kid, it was like, "Time for bed!" "Okay mom." I'd brush my teeth (having already bathed myself) and get into bed. My folks would come kiss me good night and that was it. "
That is basically what Emily is like and always has been, lol. It can be so different with NT kids. I used to read to them lots before bed but Cait and Mike started reading on thier own and they weren't interested, then I got so darn tired I just couldn't at bed time. I tell them, come and ask me any time during the day and I will read but I just can't at bed time anymore. Bad I know, but at that point I am so done for the day. But all 4 now are reading so they all read at bed time. I could honestly get away with kissing them as they head off to bed but Mike insists I tuck him in still and Dave still likes that (secretly, so do I) So they ALL want to be tucked in and I do.
Renee
My kids are so into butts. What is the deal??? I honestly think it's a boy thing.
Ian is just now at 8 1/2 finally getting himself to bed without a huge fuss, but primarily it's because he's trying to earn his Nintendo DS. (I posted about his insatiable need for new toys, and they are getting more and more expensive. As others suggested, we created a reward system and it's WORKING!!!)
Ian rarely slept as an infant. This is how I know he was autistic from birth. His development was all out of order from the beginning and his sleep patterns were terrible. I was completely sleep deprived for the first two years after having him. He absolutely would not, could not sleep unless he was in our bed, and that continued until he was about 6. But even then, it would take several hours to get him to go to sleep. I finally started giving him Benedryl at night because he did have some allergies and it helped him sleep so much better. I did notice with him especially, he did not wind down, but UP when he was overtired.
Mornings used to be absolutely horrible. He always woke up in a terrible mood. He was absolutely inconsolable. Finally we discovered his love of trains when he was about 3. We got some train videos -- his favorite was about the history of railroads and he would watch the entire video when he woke up every day. It helped him transition so much more nicely. But it took forever to get him to put his clothes on, and I usually ended up dressing him. Even so it would take a half hour, easily.
When he gets really tired, he gets silly, but it's more giggly and goofy. Anything will make him laugh. His eyes get really baggy and he looks so sweet, giggling and baggy eyed. But God help us if he gets on a roll about bodily functions. He could go on for days about farting or butts!
I think the sleep transition thing is neurological. My husband's sibblings walked in their sleep. Thank goodness we don't have the same problem my MIL had with her older son. He would wander into the hallway to the linen closet and pee in it. Apparently he thought it was the toilet and she had a heck of a time breaking him of that night habit. He also used to roll out of his top bunk until he was about 12, but they could not get him to sleep anywhere else.
Duncan, on the other hand, is a DREAM! He's so easy and really always has been, with a brief time of wanting just one more story, just one more! and it would go on for an hour. But he was always a good sleeper as a baby, and his PDD-NOS didn't show up until he was about 2 1/2 - 3 years old, and even then, it wasn't nearly so obvious. I do wonder if sleep problems are one symptom of neurological disorders in general.
Sorry this got so long! I'm not really sure if I answered your question, but I do think what you are experiencing is an AS thing.
Kelly
Going to sleep is really hard for Everett. He is usually tossing and turning and then shouting that he cannot fall asleep loud enough to wake the entire apartment. This is a problem that seemed to develop as he got older. When he was younger he didn't have trouble falling asleep. When he is tossing and turning trying to fall asleep he is usually moaning and groaning too. Giving him Melatonin does help him but I think it is more mind over matter because there are nights that he thinks he took the Melatonin when I know he hasn't (purely by just forgetting the pill) and he falls asleep fine.
Everett cannot be left alone whenever water is involved. There will almost always be water all over the floor. We had to start making him take showers when he was 10 because he would flood the entire bathroom floor even still he gets water on the floor. Now when I have him washing dishes in the kitchen sink I have him put down the shower mat to soak up the water he gets all over the floor from washing dishes. Then when we go to the pool he is always get yelled at by the lifeguard for splashing too much.
Not all the time, but when there's anything unusual happening the next day I have similar problems with Kivrin. She almost never just goes to sleep when I put her to bed. After I've read her bood, and told her a story (generally the same one for weeks at a time) and sung her "juice cup song", and shooed the dragons out of the room and set her stuffed moose "Moose" to guard the door, she will usually lay awake for a fairly long time (up to 3 hours) talking and singing to herself. Especially when she's stressed she seems to go right from some exuberant conversation to snoring. In the morning there seems to be no transition time. She's asleep, breathing deep and even, and then she's awake and talking. And what I always find funny is that she wakes up responding to a typical Kivrin dialogue. "Yes, that's right! We're going to school today." For naps though she always sleeps pretty normally unless we're going out for something special in the evening. Fortunately, right now, she's an only child so she's not keeping anyone else up.
She's also a big sleep talker. My husband always thinks she's calling to us and has a problem of some sort, but that's not it. I still keep a monitor by my side of the bed and I can hear her pretty clearly. She just suddenly starts talking about something for some time and then goes right back to snoring.
Last night we put her to bed an hour late because she and daddy were watching a tv show together and then she stayed up for another 2 hours with various issues. So, somewhere around 11:00 she finally passed out and she was standing next to my bed staring at my mouth at 5:30. Since I didn't get to bed until after midnight I'm exhausted. She doesn't seem to be though.
Mary
I am so new to the who PDD world but I have learned to laugh with it. Adam is such a comedian!
Glad to hear the stories.
nora
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