Asperger's syndrome vs being a jerk?

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Registered: 06-25-2003
Asperger's syndrome vs being a jerk?
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Tue, 10-17-2006 - 11:44pm

Ya know, Kristy (ketchupklf) raised a very interesting point in the "House" thread, and I thought I would open this one up to the floor. Her comment was this:


The line the kind of 'punched me in the face' was Cuddy's reply of "He doesn't have Aspergers... he's just a jerk." And then Wilson more or less agreed! It kind of left me wondering... where do we draw the line for something like that? I mean... *yes*, he is a jerk in so many ways... but couldn't he be a jerk on the spectrum? Or if he is on the spectrum is he 'exempt' from jerkdom? Isn't just 'being a jerk' to survive their own loneliness an option for those who don't feel like they belong? Not the best choice, sure... but an option.


I have been pondering this all day: Where does Asperger's end and bring a jerk begin? Or indeed, the the other way around?

-Paula

visit my blog at www.onesickmother.com
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Registered: 03-25-2003
Wed, 10-18-2006 - 12:17am

That comment got my attention to, but I'm gonna have to put some thought into this and get back to you.

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Wed, 10-18-2006 - 12:30am

hmmmm, I don't think one ends and the other begins. I thin you have AS people who are nice and AS people who are jerks just like you have NT people who are nice and NT people who are jerks.

I do think that sometimes people with AS can be misread as jerks because they don't understand social cues and thus may do some things that socially don't go over well and thus the term jerk, nerd, etc is applied.

I think the difference or the line is when someone understands the impact thier behavior has on the other person. In other words when they have theory of mind. If a person is acting crass and like a jerk, they know others think of them that way and that others are hurt or annoyed by thier behavior but they just don't care to change then they are being a jerk. When a person doesn't get the affects thier behavior has on another then they are AS.

Now there are times when my dear, lovely son or daughter can be "jerks". Heck, they are kids. And since they are AS and as such typically don't really care what others think of them (they don't even consider it), it can be a bit easier for them at times to annoy others willfully for a laugh or just cause.

It is entirely possible I guess that a person like "House" started out as a person with AS or similar traits. Had lots of social failures and the Jerkiness was a coping or defense mechanism that worked well for him. That would be a tough one to tease out.

For instance, Mike can say the worlds nastiest things and give nasty awful looks to people, particularly anyone new who tries to talk to him. He just wants them to go away and that method has worked wonders for years to get the desired effect. He is getting better about it but the first way he learned to get people away from him was to scream or hit. When we finally got the skill taught NOT to do that, his next defense was to use his mouth. Still working on that but it is getting much better.

So that is my confusing 2 cents.

Renee

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Wed, 10-18-2006 - 8:11am

What excellent questions.....


Liam is also Mr. Personality when it suits him.

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Wed, 10-18-2006 - 2:29pm

I've been thinking about the (suspected) Spectrum adults I know, and not a single one of them is a jerk. They can come across as cold, aloof or downright strange, Maybe some may think them jerks, but all are very reticent with strangers. With people they know, they are deep thinkers and can be a right laugh. One of them married a total cow, but that's probably another story.


The person I know who is most prone to fits of "jerkiness" is me!

-Paula

visit my blog at www.onesickmother.com
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Registered: 08-26-2005
Thu, 10-19-2006 - 12:25am
Paula,
If you or someone else could answer this question for me it could make me understand Dh so much better and probably make his life a whole lot easier. After Jake was diagnosed and I read every book I could get my hands on, I started to wonder about DH. To be honest I am often embarresed by him in social settings because he often comes off like a jerk.He is very "to the point"and can't understand why people use small talk.He has very little empathy but I do believe he has theroy of mind.When he was a child he had and still has sensory issues. He also is very bright and has an unbeliveble memory. I know if he were evaluated right now he would not be given a diagnosis but I don't know if that's because he really isn't on the spectrum or if it's just that he has had thirty something years to perfect certain things.I remeber him taking an online eval for AS and to be diagosed you had to score 33 or above,his score was 31!!!! I think that just like no two kids with Autism are affected the same way the same is true with AS. I also think that just because DH has theroy of mind dosen't automatically mean he dosen't have AS especially because he lacks empathy.Anyone else have a hubbie like me?
Teresa
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Registered: 09-09-2005
Thu, 10-19-2006 - 9:25am

My cousin back in Ireland (20 in Jan) has a dx of AS/ADHD and he is an absolute jerk.

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Thu, 10-19-2006 - 9:29am

Oh Teresa...do I ever have a hubby like yours! Although not technically Dx'd, there is no doubt in our minds that my DH is an Aspie. He has finally started to admit it. In fact, his mother-again no Dx-is, without a doubt, on the spectrum. This is one of the reasons that I feel (at least in our family's case) it's genetic. Oh...and my husband certainly has "theory of the mind", and like so many spectrum adults, he's brilliant.

Having said all of that, I can tell you (at least in my DH's case) he has learned over time to compensate for extremely poor social skills. My husband works very hard at this, and is typically successful in social situations. I'll admit though, there are moments when I see him go to talk to someone and I get all tensed up because I don't trust his ability to always say the right thing. My husband openly states that he, in general, dislikes people. I can count on one hand the number of friends he's had since I've known him...and of those, only two would I consider "close" friends. (And they both have major issues of their own!)

One of the best things that ever happened for our family was when DH realized that he had spectrum tendencies. Suddenly he was better able to cope with our two spectrum kiddos and all their quirks, because he UNDERSTOOD what was going on in their minds.

Amy

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Thu, 10-19-2006 - 11:01am

Interesting topics here, both the Asperger's vs jerk.. and aspie like behavior in parents.

In my case, I am the parent with the aspie tendancies. Mostly this has to do with social deficits, but I do sometimes get "stuck" on things. I don't think I would really get a dx or anything. But knowing this about myself has helped me understand my ds alot, but I do have alot of anxiety about trying to teach him things that I haven't mastered myself, like how to handle certain common social situations. We (ds and I) both rely on dh alot, he's the social member of the family. But it is awkward, because typically the mom is the one to help with playdates, smooth over things with the school/teacher, organize the family social life, and frankly I suck at those things.. I try my best though!

Asperger's vs jerk.. like others have said.. I think there are definitly non AS jerks out there, I work with a few of them, lol. These are people who do or say things that they KNOW will bother/annoy/upset others, but that's the reason they do them. Then they feign innocence. Sometimes it's obvious what they were trying to do. With people with social skills deficits, I think sometimes they want to contribute to the conversation or discussion, but they use the wrong tone of voice or the wrong words and it can be contstrued as being jerkish, or sometimes just plain weird. I see this happening to ds more as he gets older, and it's been my experience pretty much my whole life. Even on this board, I don't post alot, but when I do, I often think.. was that a weird thing to say?

Anyway, if there is one thing that ds's dx has done for me, it's been to change my attitude toward the "jerks" of the world. I mean that when someone makes a comment I don't like or agree with, as long as it not too offensive, I just let it go and think, maybe he's got social skills problems. Unless it's a comment about my ds or dh, then watch out, I come out like a mama tiger!

Kate

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Thu, 10-19-2006 - 11:59am

Teresa


I agree with what Amy and some other have said. He probably is/was

-Paula

visit my blog at www.onesickmother.com