Candes - about ODD

Avatar for suitemadameblue
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Candes - about ODD
2
Mon, 06-16-2003 - 12:41pm
(I didn't want to hijack the previous thread this was in, so I am putting it here instead!)

Believe me, with the dx of ODD, it came as a complete and TOTAL shock to us!!!! We had been to see our psych at an appt where she said nothing, and then not even a week later, we took in a form for her to fill out to enroll Tristan on a military's EFM program (Exceptional Family Member - helps us get duty stations with areas/facilities that can actually help us, and not hinder us like we found out our current one is). When we got this form back from her, this dx was listed. Not once has she ever said anything to us about it.

The only thing we can figure is, we have said to her that when he is not at school, he doesn't listen as well - mainly to hubby and myself. I know the exact reason for it, too....school is strict and regimental, home is relaxed and "home." I am thinking she took this a totally different way.

We are going to talk to her about this (we only meet with her about once every 2-3months). In fact, the appts that normally take about 15mins to check on his meds actually took hubby almost an hour last time. He went in, completely fed up, and let it all out with this woman. And, for what we feel was the first time, she actually listened! She started Trsitan on a new med that we feel better fits his needs, and she will see him again this week (last appt was only last month, so she is very "into" what is going on with us, now!) to see about weaning him off of the Tenex. I think hubby is also going to talk to her this appt about the ODD - yes, he is defiant, at times, to hubby and myself. Every child is at this age, he is simply heightened. Also, it isn't constant, and it isn't with all adults. In fact, he lives to please people, not defy them.


~Carrie

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 06-16-2003 - 10:51pm
Carrie,

I am sooooooo glad you guys are going to do something about the ODD dx. I can't tell you how many problems people have had because of this 'disorder' that had nothing more to do with it than the unreality of it. There is a sinerio I want to tell you about. I got permission from the person it involes (or I would have described it on the other post.) Here it is:

When Matt was 12yo he and a friend were playing with 4th of July sparklers on his friend's roof. They had been told not to (of course) but, boys being boys, curiosity overroad their better sense. At one point they thought they heard the friend's dad coming home and got scared. They threw the sparklers onto the roof of the house next door to get rid of them, figuring thye would 'go out' as they sailed through the air. Of course, they didn't, and that house burrned down. Matt's mother had always told him "No matter how bad the crime, lying about it will only make it worse". So, when the arsin (sp?) investigators showed up Matt told them everything. It was immidiately listed as an accedent and the fire chief recomended Matt and friend come down to the station and take a free Fire Safety course, which Matt and his mom agreed too. Homeowners insurance was going to pay for the damages, etc, so no charges were going to be brought.

However, Matt's father got it in his head that Matt was ORDERED to take the classes and took Matt out of the county and placed him with his grandmother. Unfortunatley for Matt the case hadn't officially been close yet. So when the investigator showed up to take a final statement in order to close the case and found Matt missing.....well, it didn't look good for the little guy. The father hadn't told the mother where their son was (he thought he was protecting both of them) so it looked even worse when she said "He disapeared this morning, I've been look frantically for him ever since." She had even called the police and listed him as a missing child to get a 'search aid' going. Still the father remained silent. Eventually it came out that Matt was at his dgm's and that his father was the one who had taken him there. But the damage was already done. Matt was convicted of arsin in the 3rd degree and senstenced to probabtion until his 17th birthday. Since he was a juvinal he was required to get counciling as part of the probation. In the months it took to go from 'running away' to the first counciling session Matt had adopted a smaller version of his father's contempt for the proceedings. So he was listed as 'defiant' by the shrink.

Skip ahead 4 years.....Matt is the captain of his water polo team in high school, gets a B average, and has a steady girlfriend. He works part time for his uncle at a family owned construction company doing loose jobs, when studies and sports permit. Sound like he's doing good? One would think so, yes. He has his driver's permit and is anxiously awaiting the end of his probation so he can get his licence. He has vollunteered several times to talk to elementry school classes about the dangers of playing with fireworks and has taken ellective courses in health, law enforcment, and child care. He doesn't sound too defiant now does he?

A month before the end of Matt's probation he is at the local pizza parol with his water polo team celebrating their quallification to the regional finnals. A bunch of 10 and 11 yo olds are hanging out there and making a point of getting in the way while Matt and teammates try to enjoy a game of pool. They all warn the younger kids several times that thy are too close to the table and might get hit with a stick if their not careful. This was pretty much the exact wording they used too. They were trying to keep the younger kids from getting hurt. But one of the kids decided to 'mess' with Matt and walked up behind him while he was concentraiting on a shot. Matt drew the pool stick back, not seeing the child beind him, and ended up knocking out 3 of the kid's teeth. The kid said Matt did it on purpose saying that he had threatened him not warned him. Even though the polo coach was there and testified that it was an accedent Matt was still brought up on charges of 'child battery' and 'battery with a blunt object'. The fact that he was still on probation had very little to with the new charges...until the shrink came in and testified that Matt was 'defient'. Matt was sentanced to 'deffered amicipation until his 21st birthday', and his probation was extended until that time. He was also asigned to pay resitution to the child and his family and ordered not to do any further work with children under age 16. 106 hours of communtiy service was also ordered as well as more counciling. As you can imagine, matt wasn't happy about any of this. So in his counciling sessions with the new shrink (his mother insisted it be a different person) he was listed again as being 'defiant'.

At this point the PC parents of the world were pushing to find a lable for their 'problematic children'. ODD had entered the DSM. So with two seperate shrinks saying that Matt was 'defiant' he was given a dx of ODD. His parents were told that this wouldn't effect his standing as an adult, once he became one, but it would help him 'get thte help he needed'. None of this sat well with the mother, but the father was all to happy to be told hi son's problems weren't his fault and that his parenting skills weren't lacking.

Fast forward again, Matt is now 19, and thanks to the courts, still living at home with his parents since while on probation he isn't allowed to live in the dorms at college. He is attending California Polytech University and majoring in education. He wants to be a PE coach if at all possible and teach high school history. Now remember, he and his parents have been told that the none of the affore mentioned, the dx, the charges, the probation, would affect his standing as an adult and that he WOULD be able to work as a teacher.

Matt is at a rally for one of the school sports teams with his girlfriend (same one he's had since he was 15). Girlfriend is being moody and emotional (very unualy for her) and takes offense when he points it out in the typical blunt 'male' way. She starts hitting him and he tries to back away but runs into a railing and starts to fall over the edge. He reaches out to find a hand hold and ends up grabbing her shirt, which rips, right there in front of hundreds of people. Btw, Matt fell over the railing anyway and broke his wrist. Grilfriend presses charges against HIM for tearing her shirt. Matt is brought up on charges of 'batterment'. A week after the incident his girlfriend fins out she's pregnant. (well that IS what happens when you intentionally stop taking the pill....duh!) Her mother and doctor inform her that her outbursts and boughts of violence are due to the rapidly changing horemones and convince her to drop the charges against Matt. But the damage is done. he's still on prbation and has already been ordered back before the judge. The judge looks at the still open juvinal case and declares that Matt fits the legal description of Psychopathy. This is NOT a clinical dx, it is legal deffinition.....one that mandates in-house time spent at a J-Ward (prison for the criminally insaine.) So Matt spends 5 months trying to pretned that he is the perfect little inamte so he can get out of the J-Ward before his son is born.

Fast forward yet again....Matt is 22, off probation, and enjoying being a father. He is in his junior year at Calpoly and getting pretty good grades. Matt and girlfriend have since broken up but Matt spends almost all of his free time with his son. This is the first year that he can have unsupervised visits with his own son because while he was on probation he wasn't allowed to (courts decision not the boy's mother's). One day boy's mother drops son off at Matt's house and says she just can't take it and asks if he can take their son while she finishes college. Since Matt still lives at home with his parents he agrees. Matt's mom is all to happy to be a full time grandma and caretaker of a baby again. Matt's father,on the other hand, decides to get into the middle of things again. He convinces Matt that his son's mother is trying to abandon her child and that Matt needs to file for full custody. Through the father's urging matt is succeful in convincing the courtss that she is a delinquant mother.....HOWEVER, even though Matt'a juvinal file has been seeled there is still a mark against him for being in the J-Ward. because it is only a mark, and files are seeled, all it reads is 'psychopathy'. Matt's son is placed in foster care.

This is how a kid who only wanted to please his parents (gee, wouldn't they be considered authority figures?) was given a detramental legal classification, lost his son, and was denied the right to ever work as a teacher, which was his life long goal.

Moral to the story? A) play nice when it comes to the cops. If you dissagree with something get a lawyer don't 'run away'. B) Don't settle for an ODD dx, it WILL backfire eventually.

To be perfectly honest I haven't heard of single ODD dx that couldn't be explained by something else. In Matt's case the snowball started with his father's lack of parenting skills. But it could very easily be any Aspie who doesn't know how to express him/her self. My DH once iterupted a teacher durring a lecture to point out that the teacher was wrong in saying that the brick portion of the Berlin Wall extended all the way around the city. He was sent to the principle for being defiant. Where upon he told the principle "I don't like my teacher, he's ignorant." DH was using the word 'ignorant' by it's litteral deffinition: Unlearned, lacking in general or specific education. And DH was right, the teacher WAS lacking in specific education on the Berlin Wall. Dh was trying to say he wanted to take World History from someone who could teach it more factually. But the principle suspended him for being defiant. Thankfully for DH that was in the 70s and ODD was nowhere in sight.

Sorry for the book. I just wanted to illustrait a few ways a kid can get this dx without earning it, both Aspie and NT.

Candes

Peace,
Candes  
Avatar for suitemadameblue
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 06-17-2003 - 1:48pm
Oh wow. Leave it to the system to totally screw up the life of a completely undeserving person. Thank you so much for sharing.

Isn't it amazing how "label crazy" people are anymore??!?! I look at many (supposed)ODD kids, and don't really see anything different. They are kids...typically between the ages of 6 and 9 when they get the dx...and they ARE going to be defiant. Gee, isn't that part of being a kid and finding out where the limits are and just *who* you are?! Then again, in these days, kids simply aren't allowed to be kids anymore. Little adults is what so many people seem to want. *sigh*.....makes my head hurt just thinking about it.

But yes, the ODD dx WILL be brought up at this next meeting which is tomorrow night. Hubby is going to try and figure out just why she has given Tristan this label to begin with, then do his best to get it taken off before it goes to far.

Again.......thanks so much for sharing.

~Carrie