concern re: possible diagnosis

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Registered: 02-01-2005
concern re: possible diagnosis
15
Fri, 02-17-2006 - 1:08pm

Hi all,

On Monday we met with Dr. re: Ethan, ds age 6. Ethan was pretty calm but did have off subject conversations with the doc. Then doc asked what Ethan does in the am. He said, "Eat breakfast and then go outside." Basically that's the highlight--breakfast and then leaving for school. I didn't think that was an off answer, really, but doc said, "Ethan that's not really what you do--you get dressed, right?" Ethan agreed. So doc said, "Well, why did you say something that wasn't correct? Did you think of that answer by yourself, or did you hear a 'voice' telling you to say that?"

WHAT?! On Law and Order I think they call that leading the witness!

Ethan replied, "A voice" (First time I've heard of this., btw.) SO now I'm concerned the doc is leaning toward something other than AS. So far doc says it 'might be AS, but because Ethan can socialize and has friends, he isn't sure. It does take Ethan a few weeks to get comfortable in school settings and start to interact with other kids.

Doc also mentioned putting Ethan on a low dose of Prozac or Zoloft for anxiety. I'm not sure about that, since the anxiety is hit and miss and he can be calmed.

So far these are the AS symptoms Ethan shows:
lining items
obsessive thoughts
off topic and disjointed speech patterns (also makes up own words)
some repetitive noises (motions too, only not often)
extreme emotions
feelings of anxiety especially if someone is correcting him
no patience

I know there are more, can't think right now.
We go back on Monday. Can anyone relate to an AS child who is pretty social? I really think part of this is due to the fact that Ethan's sister is VERY social and he has learned to socialize from practice with her.

Also, what do you think the doc is looking for if NOT AS???

TIA!
Debbi

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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-25-2003
Fri, 02-17-2006 - 1:41pm

I too, am concerned regarding the Dr's interview technique. Talk about putting words in the child' smouth! And what words! I don't want to scare you, but "hearing voices" is a major component of schizophrenia. It may also be a component of bipolar disorder (Evelyn, Chelsea?), but I am not sure. Either way, I would run screaming from either of those DXes if this Dr tries to hand them out based on his presumptive and confusing interview technique.

I have an extroverted Autie. He is eally happy and friendly, says "hi" and talks to people, initiates play and often answers questions when addressed. But he goes about it all wrong: His idea of initiating play for the longest time; was to run at a child full pelt and bodyslam them. Thank goodness he is a skinny kid, but it freaked out a lot of kids (and parents!).

-Paula

-Paula

visit my blog at www.onesickmother.com
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 02-17-2006 - 2:53pm

I'd look into a second oppinion honestly.

The answer your son gave initially is by virtue of an Aspie correct. He gets up and goes outside. Sure there is alot more to it than that but that is like you said what is important to him. I am sure at 6 he didn't think to give the doctor a discertation of his morning routine and AS kids are not great on communication anyway.

As for "hearing a voice" telling him to say that. I can see Mike doing that with a doctor. It isn't so much that he had heard voices as much as what he thinks the doc wants to hear and the easiest way to get rid of him and his stupid questions. Just agree with him. It is likely Mike wouldn't have even completely understood what the doctor meant by hearing a voice. To Mike hearing the doctor say something is hearing a voice because it is. He has no concept of hearing voices in your head that aren't real and even if I explained it to him he likely wouldn't really get it. He probably would think every time he thinks something in his head he was hearing voices, or would insist that those voices are real becuase he heard them.

At anyrate, I have no clue what the doctor is getting at. I have known many "social" aspies and auties. They can be socially outgoing, particularly young, they just aren't good at it. As they get older and have more social failures that is when they tend to withdraw more. Cait always was the typical asocial autistic type and didn't give a rat's behind about other kids but is more social now and has a few friends at school but it just started this year (middle school) where she met some other quirky kids. Took alot of work to get there. Mike on the other hand was social as a toddler and preschooler but over the years social failures caused him to withdraw. He is just starting to be more outgoing again with some kids at school but still has no friends or consistency with that.

Renee

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
Fri, 02-17-2006 - 3:06pm

I have no real expertise here, but I just wanted to say that if someone asked *me* what I did in the morning, I would probably say, "I get up and get Sylvia ready for school." It wouldn't occur to me to say, "I get up, then shower, then brush my teeth, then get dressed, etc. etc. etc." So it sounds a bit outrageous to me that the doc was making such an issue about that.

Just my 2 cents!!!

Jennifer

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-24-2004
Fri, 02-17-2006 - 3:36pm

Debbi,

I wrote a long reply...then lost it!!! So here's the short version!! LOL

Nathan has the same traits that you mentioned about Ethan. Although, Nathan likes to keep to himself more these days....he was social when he was younger. I also have a 9yr old, and Nathan has learned tons of social skills from him!!!

I agree with the others....I would get a second opinion. IMO, I think Ethan answered the dr's question just fine!!! I mean, the dr didn't ask for a step by step run down of his morning!!! And hearing the "voice" thing.....lol!!! Maybe Ethan was hearing his own voice telling himself to say that?! Don't we all talk to ourselves??? I just think it was extremely bizarre!!!

Nathan deals with anxiety too. And our dr told me that as long as Nathan is doing fine, and his anxiety doesn't cause any problems with his daily life at home or at school....then we don't really need to medicate.

michelle

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-20-2006
Fri, 02-17-2006 - 7:34pm

I was going to say the exact same thing. I wouldn't go into every detail about what I do. That's pretty much a given that I get dressed and brush my teeth. My answer would be "I get the kids off to school" and I wouldn't go into every little detail before that.

Also, I think the other poster is right that it may be his own voice he is hearing telling him the answer. Now if he said someone else who was not there told him to say it, then maybe he would be on to something. I'm no expert--this is just my opinion.

Good luck!

Shelly

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
Fri, 02-17-2006 - 7:59pm

Quack Alert! Quack Alert! LOL!

Gosh, you know, just five minutes ago *I* heard a voice. It was saying, "MUST HAVE CHOCOLATE!" I mean, really! How ridiculous! I agree with everyone else who posted.

And, yes, psychosis can be a symptom of bipolar. David, 8, was dx at age 6 with BP-NOS and Asperger's. It took a while to understand what was going on, but he would often panic suddenly, and scream, "What was THAT?!" in a terrified voice. Also, he also became terrified at the sight of certain kinds of people, particularly elderly people and people with certain facial features. We'd be out shopping, when suddenly a couple of people would come into view and he'd yank his little brother towards him and start screaming hysterically, "Nathan, stay close to us!!!" I would get so annoyed and embarrassed! But after a while it became clear that he was experiencing something the rest of us were not. My suspicions were mostly confirmed when, one night, he asked me if *I* saw the multi-colored, see-though space alien on his shelf. He wasn't scared, but he was puzzled and intrigued that he was actually seeing something that wasn't there. That was the moment of "AH-HA" for me, when it all came together and I *knew* he had a neurological disorder. That stuff stopped happening when he was put on Trileptal, a mood stabilizer (which is NOT the same type of medication as Prozac or Zoloft, by the way.)

Oh, also, David socializes okay. Well, alright, it's all relative, and I'd rather stare at a blank wall for two hours than go to a party (unless it's a just a couple of close friends)! Maybe a more extraverted mother would be worried...but he gets along fine with his classmates and has a mutual "best friend" there.

I think I'd consider looking for a different doctor.

Evelyn

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 02-17-2006 - 8:31pm

I definitely agree to get a second opinion. What type of doctor is he? Just curious.

Christie

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-01-2005
Fri, 02-17-2006 - 9:36pm

Thanks for all the input--I really appreciate it!

The problem is, this IS the second opinion!! I am pretty sure he has a PHD in Behavior and treats children almost exclusively. We actually saw him about 12 years ago for our son who was depressed at age 4 after our friend's baby died. I liked him ok then, but only saw him once.

The first Dr. we took Ethan to was last year and he only saw Ethan for 15 minutes and interviewed me for about 20. He said it was too soon to dx AS and suggested we watch him. I was not impressed with him and that's why I went to this other Dr.

We have another appointment on Monday afternoon. I intend to discuss the 'voices' thing with him then. I respect Drs, but I refuse to be intimidated by them and have no problem advocating for my kiddos! I was really hoping this one would work out since I do have some other issues I wanted to talk about. Ethan was adopted at birth and my best friend and her husband adopted his half sister (also at birth) Sis is 2 years older. They are close 'friends', but my friend and I are wondering how to explain the difference between their siblings who are also adopted but not biological (confused yet?) LOL

I'll keep you posted on the Monday meeting--thanks!!
Debbi

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-01-2003
Sat, 02-18-2006 - 9:25am

Debbi,

I posted a reply to this thread, it so weird I can't seem to find it now! I had mentioned the idea of mercury/high metals in connection w/ your son's diaganosis. Just wondering if you saw it...

Meg

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-01-2005
Sat, 02-18-2006 - 10:25am

Hi Meg,

No I looked back through the posts and can't find it either. Interesting you mention that, because I was considering muscle testing for him.

thanks
debbi

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