Dog advice needed

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Dog advice needed
11
Sun, 03-26-2006 - 10:03pm

Having a bit of trouble with our aussie shepard/golden retriever mix. She is 3 and very aussie. We have had her since she was 6 months old.

Tonight she bit Cait. Just a scratch when scared but a scratch with intent. She was under Cait's bed where she likes to be. Cait reached under and grabbed a magazine and Gracie barked and bit her hand causing a scratch that barely broke the skin.

Gracie is a great doggie. She can be very sweet but she is also a bit anxious. She gets very nippy around stranger dogs and definitely has an alpha dog attitude. Once she gets to know a new animal she is fine but it is this part of her temperment that concerns me.

Our older dog is a major sweetie. He would never hurt a fly. You can take his food from him when eating and he wouldn't even flinch and would likely give you a kiss. That is the kind of doggie I like.

I don't know what to do. This is Cait's dog and Cait adores her but I can't have a dog that I am afraid is going to turn on my kids either.

UGH!

Renee

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iVillage Member
Registered: 10-03-2004
In reply to: rbear4
Mon, 03-27-2006 - 5:53am

Dear Renee,

Has this dog been through a training program? Have you spoken with a dog trainer? Have there been other biting incidents?

Our upstairs neighbor is a very good professional dog trainer and I will ask him about your dog and if there is anything you could be doing to calm her down.

Sara

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-25-2003
In reply to: rbear4
Mon, 03-27-2006 - 7:22am

Renee,

OK I am no dog expert, but by Da knew quite a bit about them (from his Da). I know they are pack animals, and they need s strong pack leader and defined pecking order. If there is no obvious leader in the pack or in the situation, the dog will try to step up and lead -regardless of alpha tendancies, because SOMEBODY has to, and this pressure can cause anxiety and behaviour issues with dogs.

Also; Shepherds of all sorts are bred to guard and herd a "flock". Shepherds as family pets will often make the family or the kids their "flock" and try to treat them accordingly. This can be good and bad (think about it). The trick is to identify and encourage the good behaviours and discourage the bad ones.

So to me; it sounds to me like you need to train Cait and the family, as much, -if not more than Gracie. They need to learn how to lead and take control, (-casually and non-confrontationally) and how to relagate Gracie back into her place at the bottom of the food chain. You may need a good book or some expert advice on how to achieve this. I do know *some* pointers:

Never allow Gracie to push her way past you, or to be the *first* to arrive anywhere; especially if going upstairs or through doors. Make her wait until (all) the people have gone through first. Make sure she understands the word "NO" (stern voice).

Gracie probably has some favorite locations in the house or yard wehere she surveys her kingdom (Queendom?). There are her 'power places' where she is in charge. Identify these and stop her going there: Typical power places are high, high traffic or strategically significant (allows an optimum vantage point in the house or yard): top of the stairs; on furniture, in doorways. Block her from getting under Cait's bed, as she may think of that space as her 'territory' It isn't. it is *Cait's* territory, and Gracie needs to understand that she only gets to go there by invitation and at Caiti's will.

For you: Mother dogs correct naughty puppies by shaking the back of their necks. You may want to learn this trick, and use it to show Gracie who is boss.

Also, if one of the other dogs has alpha tendancies, showing more attention to that dog will promote it in the pack, and he (we'll assume it's a he) will put Gracie in her place. Of course you may just create tension and a little Napolean (sp) in the process, so I wouldnt; attempt this without some serious expert input.

I found a book called (I think) "How your dog thinks" in Petco, which is aimed at kids, and goes into a lot of this stuff in a simple and easy-to understand way. Have a little browse at Petco, or better yet: at an independent pet store. Ask them for advice. Often petstore people are real animal lovers and know a lot.

Speaking of advice: Your veterinarian is probably a wealth of informtaion on the subject. S/he can give you some pointers, as well as information on local trainers or animal people who can help, and good books to get.

Local not-for-profit (not town) animal shelters are good fot his kind of imformation also.

Good luck. My 70lb boxer cross would-be Alpha boy gave me some cause for concern when we adopted the kittens -growling and asserting; although only once at a human (and at the scariest person in our house: Me!). We promptly put him in his place, and all is relatively calm (for us) now. -knock on wood

HTH

-Paula

-Paula

visit my blog at www.onesickmother.com
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-07-2003
In reply to: rbear4
Mon, 03-27-2006 - 7:37am
My family is new to the world of dog ownership, so I don't have personal advice, but I've gotten a lot of help from the "Dog Training and Behavior" board here http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-ptbasic
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-19-2005
In reply to: rbear4
Mon, 03-27-2006 - 7:52am

Hi Renee,

I think Paula gave all the advice that I could have given. Since this is Cait's dog, I do think it is important that you have her involved in whatever training program you decide to do. I bet it is the whole need for an alpha that is the problem, since your other dog is aging now.

When our dog was a puppy, I got two great books by, of all people, "the monks of New Skete" (yes, monks like in a monastery, in New England, wherever New Skete is!) These monks raise German Shepherds for a variety of reasons and have a very interesting approach based on the dog's roots as "wolves" (the pack stuff Paula mentioned).

The books are called "the art of raising a puppy" and "how to be your dog's best friend." I think they are available on dvd and video now. Might save you a few $$ over enrolling in a dog training class.

The books are a really interesting read anyway. They are not new, so I bet you could find used copies. Also, maybe the monks are online now (when our dog was a puppy it was before the internet age! LOL!)

Katherine

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-09-2005
In reply to: rbear4
Mon, 03-27-2006 - 7:55am

Good Lord Paula,


Is there anything you don't know? lol;)


I would second and third everything Paula just said.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
In reply to: rbear4
Mon, 03-27-2006 - 8:07am

Paula: That was a lot of very good advice.

Renee: We managed to live with a field springer that had serious Rage Syndrome for 6 years - despite having our older Aspie boy and the younger boy being born when the dog was 2. This dog was as "Alpha" and smart as they come, and we were sort of afraid he would sneak in and steal the baby from his crib to eat him - not sure why/how we were dealing with that, but we'll discuss that another day. (I am crazy about our animals....)

Cait (and all your kids) need to learn about being the dominant animal. No bed or under bed sleeping - that's one of the sure signs of a dog claiming a person's space (so is sitting on a chair or couch). But to be fair, dogs are den animals and they do need a place to call their own. We had a wire crate in the corner of our kitchen that turned out to save us many a time from our crazy dog. We conditioned him to go there just on a hand-singnal - and even if he was foaming at the mouth like Cujo - he'd run right there. If you can, set your dog up a crate, make it comfy and always feed and water her there and FORBID anyone in your family from ever placing their hands into the crate other than to deliver food/water. Train the dog to run to the cage on a specific command and give her lots and lots of treats when she does it, make a nice big fuss.

Who ever has the most trouble with the dominance should be the person to feed and water the dog if possible. Also, if the problem is specifically with Cait, a 6' leash for 2 weeks can do wonders. Cait would have to be willing to keep the leash attached to her belt and the dog would be required to go everywhere with Cait (except bed of course). It is extremely effective for establishing who's the boss. If you don't feel safe having Cait do it, you or DH can do it. It creates an amazing attitude change.

We have English Shephards now, and the hearding dog instinct is strong - they do love to round everybody up. BUT - they never ever would dream of nipping at someone. That is not hearding, that's defensiveness or dominance.

Have Cait and all the kids work on "obediance training" for your dog. It doesn't matter what it is - sit/stay/come/roll-over/fetch whatever. Just make sure that they very frequently spend time with the dog and the dog is given commands and then duly rewarded when they do them quickly. In order to get into this mode, sending people and dogs to a trainer is a good idea.

If you have an Alpha dog and kids, it's not good. Then if you have a working dog (shephard) without a job to do, it's extra tough on the dog. Your sweet doggie needs a job to relieve her stress! Just like our kids, she needs a predictable routine and structure. You've had a good warning signal already that things are going bad - it can get worse, especially if the dog gets older and develops any types of ailments.

We've dealt with almost everything here on the farm, so if you want any specific information just let me know!

Jackie

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-25-2003
In reply to: rbear4
Mon, 03-27-2006 - 8:22am


Dee,

>>Good Lord Paula,

Is there anything you don't know? lol;)<<

I can't boil an egg to save my life!

;)

-Paula

-Paula

visit my blog at www.onesickmother.com
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
In reply to: rbear4
Mon, 03-27-2006 - 8:42am

HAH! Me niether - they ALWAYS crack....and Easter is coming.

Jackie

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: rbear4
Mon, 03-27-2006 - 9:24am

Boiling an egg I can do! LOL.

Actually we have had tons of animals in my life but never 2 dogs where this was a problem. Then again the only time we had 2 dogs when I was growing up was when I got a small-ish poodle/schnauzer mix when our collie was older. The collie was the leader/herder dog but very sweet. She kept my smaller male dog in line.

Our current problem is our older dog is a wuss. NO way he would ever take over, lol. And Gracie has a strong herding and protective instinct and is bigger than he is.

I can see the point. In some ways gracie has definitely been trained but in others she thinks she is the boss. She isn't allowed on furniture (it is the old man that will try and sneak there cause he is spoiled) and has to go in a certain room when we leave, but when I am home she does have 3 places she likes to be. Under Cait's bed, in the middle of the hall where she can see the whole house, and when outside by the side door where she is right infront of all entrances outside (gate and from the house).

She has a doggie crate we used to keep her in at night and when I was gone but since she cut back on chewing we haven't put her in there. I don't like leaving her in there without access to water.

Time to retrain the doggie. I am going to get one of those snout leashes and start taking her on walks. ONe of the biggest problems is she tries to be boss of the whole neighborhood so I have been cautious about taking her places. She also is going to be put in her place.

Cait likes to train her anyway and will do the sit thing with her now and again. I will have her set a schedule and do it daily.

Thanks for all the advice. And here I was thinking you all would tell me to get rid of her. That would break our hearts but I can't have an animal that can't be trusted. My boys are too quick and impulsive.

Renee

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
In reply to: rbear4
Mon, 03-27-2006 - 10:24am

Renee: We used one of those snout halters with the crazy dog, and it worked great! Much more humane than him pulling and panting.

As for keeping your dog, goodness yes! I think it sends all sorts of dangerous messages to our kids when we have a problem that we could solve, but instead we opt out for sending the pet away. I don't know about you, but even with the faults our animals have, our kids ADORE them. Colin still cries about losing the crazy dog and it's been 2 years!

Our guys will do something and I'll be mad and Colin will say "Mom - they're just animals. They don't know better, they can't help it," etc. Bet Cait was just as worried about what you'd think about the dog as why the dog she loves would have bitten her.

Jackie

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