How can I help a child who won't .....
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| Fri, 01-26-2007 - 11:55am |
Help himself. Josh has just about ever support system inplace. His teachers are great and they really want him to succed. He is on the Intergrated class and his sp ed teacher is just going the extra mile for him. But at what point is he supposed to well help himself.We communicate and we sign his agenda book and try to all make sure he does well.
This morning i got a call from his sp ed teacher. She told me his report card this quarter has drastically dropped. B-F in SS whic he is quite capable of doing well in. She told me he was missing assignments ans not keeping his notes properly etc. They will tell him straight out to do XYZ and yet will deliberately do the exact opposite. Ex,, the teachers will make sure his notes are done right, help him study etc and then they tell him now Josh put these notes in your binder where in belongs. And he will turn around and just put them in his desk or locker. If they catch him its one thing but they don't always catch him. It is being delibrate. And they know he is capable of doing the work.
Another exampl; Science -- he was supposed to do a small project about the food chain starting at the sun providing energy --plant --bug etc and well be very specific and well crative. Help is allowed. I saw the assignment in his book and asked him about it on Monday and he is like it is due Wed figuring he had time I said no, start it now what do you have to do. He tells me a basic version so I say start it now. And he does a basic thing and says it is done. I asaid are you sure, it looked to easily done for sometjhing that was supposed to take 2 days to do. He is like yeah it is fine. Exept according to the phone call I got. It is the exact opposite of what the teacher wanted. And yet Josh lied about it.
Also i had questioned Josh about his SS notes this week and he claimed the teacher had the other notes to grade them. I questioned him because how is he supposed to study if he doesn't have his notes. And he does this whole I am not Lying bid. he protestth too much. So i wrote a note to the teacher to confirmhis story. Granted I did a double shift on Wed making it hard for me to follow through. And DH missed signing the agenda book 2 days in a row.
But do i have to quit my very needed JOB to make sure this kid follows through. How can i trust my DH.
What do i do. How much can I do the teachers do etc to get this kid to work. I know many of you have the opposite problem of teachers not caring. But Josh has almost always been very lucky and that his teachers do care about him and they want him to do well and they try so hard. But if he is not willing t cooperate what do we do.
I know he wants to get a NItendo DS with his birthday money, but that will be put on hold. He will lose all electronics and will have to earn the right every day. In fact no TV will be allowed if he is any where near the Den so his brothers loose too, because Josh will sneak. I don't want to take away scouts because he needs the social skills that comes with that and he does well there. Hebrew School he actually did excellent there and his Bar Miztvah will be next year(more on that another time).
Bowling may be taken away but again the whole social skills plus helping eye hand coordination etc makes that a tough choice.
I called the spe ed department because i still did not hear from the Autsitic consultant, but she has been in the classroom to observe. But I want to have her help in this and I am not sure I can wait much longer I have been patient.
So hopefully she will call or the department will give me her phone number.
I was so upset I was crying in the shower. I called my DH to tell him that if he wasn't home before Josh is that he may have to call the cops on me or Social Services because I just want to kill Josh because how much can I help him if he won't even help himself and lies etc.
Is this part of turning 12. Is this just part of his cycle, is this because of overload? Having been overboard with the ELAs? I don't know. I am so lost right now.
What do i do?
Rina

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Hi Rina,
I was out driving on Long Island today and thought of you and Paula, Whew it is cold today!!!
The inclusion class and special ed, et al -- this is new for Josh, right? So really, noone yet knows what he is and is not capable of, completely. And the "deliberate" part worries me, 'cuz personally, I doubt any of this is deliberate. I think I remember that you are still in early "finding-out" stages with Josh, yes? Or am I wrong? How much and how thorough of neuro-psych testing has he had?
You are assuming he is doing all this on purpose, but it is really possible that he actually forgets even moments after the teacher tells him to put something in his binder. And the bringing home of assigments, handing them in, etc. IS a huge issue for many of our kids, esp. in large classroom situation, external sensory stimulation --- moment-to-moment continuous focus and involvement, therefore follow-through can be a real, genuine problem for them.
His executive functioning may indeed be MUCH lower than what is being expected of him by his teachers and you, even with all these supports. I just very much doubt, from what you are writing, that he IS capable of all these things and is just being lazy and "mis-behaving". Therefore, holding off on Nintendo DS, taking away fun (esp. social) activities is not going to get him where you want him to be.
There are others here with older children with this very same difficulties, and the skills needed have to be TAUGHT. Step by step. Many, many teachers don't know how to teach a child with executive function impairments how to improve in this area of their disability, but being punished for it won't teach them. This is because it is not coming from behavior...
I feel for you. We have never had our ds in school setting where anywhere near this much responsibility is required without it being taught, so I do hope others here step up with more actual suggestions. Also, Steph and gals at IEP Booard may have suggestions of ways your school can help him learn executive functioning.
(((((HUGS)))))
Sara
Yes it is cold out, we did get so spoiled.
I know Josh has been tested completely. I also kno I have to look at the results again to remind myself of Joshs's pros and cons. It is just frustsrating. There are times where I do feel that it is his way of being rebellious, but he isn't quite sure of how to be.
I know he wants to please everybody, and maybe he isn't sure how. I know his teachers are trying. They want him to pass.
I asked the teacher to talk to the autistic consultant if she sees and talks to her before I do to see if she has any ideas.
I just got interrupted by a phone call and I went to look for the eval done that was done over a 3 month period last year, the results given in the summer.It says he lags in pragmatic skills. It says he needs lots of guidance to help function normally.he is of average to low average intelliegence as far as verbal rasoning, processing speed and orking memory. Problem soliving skills and planning,organizatioanl abilities are generally intact but there are areas of deficitBut he does dsee memory an area of relative difficutlt which does make itr hard for the other areas.
I guess i need to re-read this thing periodically
And maybe make a copy for his teacher to help her. But he had the gambit in testing..every alphabet test they have..WISC-IV,PPB,CPT-II,TOL-DX. he did well with te CPT-II and showed above average with that which measureas attention,response inhibition and ability to adapt. And yet he struggled with the TOL-Dx which measured executive function in visuomotor problem-solving and strategic-thinking. he was average but more impulsive than the average child which in him was frustrating. I guess that is part of the problem.
Also done was learning/memory testing which was done by the NVSRT and the VSRT but it put him in the low average range/borderline range. But it did show it to be that memory is an area of "relative difficulty for Josh and likely sugests problems of organizing information in a way that makes it more easily learned and retrieved"
I am sorry i am rambling here.
But I guess in the end I may need to make a copy of this report and give it to his teachers and hopefully between us the autistic consultant we can figure out a way for Josh to get 'it" I guess I am not used to having a child who can potentially forget in one minute what was told to him.
I guess when the teachers and I see him doing the total opposite of what he was told not more that a minute of what he has been told it is frustrating.
But I know because of my nature and my Dh we could never homeschool Josh or what ever.
I don't know, maybe the consultant may suggest a 1:1 but i doubt that,
What do you do?
Rina
Hi Rina,
That is the real difficulty, when the invisable disabilities ... look like behavioral issues. When memory is affected, it can be really a big, big problem, and building blocks of appropriate responses are not learned, esp. as a child ages and the demands escalate!
Malcolm doesn't exactly have this particularly issue in this way. But I know kids who do, and very similar to what you describe... And most of the children we are close with are in special needs private schools, so the gradual education on executive functioning, remembering homework, following instructions and then building independence, is part of the programming.
Would that I could find a program again that really meets Malcolm's needs, I am near to despairing. Homeschooling answers many immediate needs, but makes our long-term goals harder.
Sara
We were having that problem with Cait as well. I think part of it is the disability and part is the age. They are at that turning point from where we have been modifying and such for them for so long and now they need to begin to take responsibility for it themselves.
It is a transition NT kids go through as well from child to adolescant but it is more pronounced with our kids.
I think a big part of the problem is that old lack of perspective taking and concrete thinking plus immaturity. They havent figured out that they have to do this, it is expected of them, etc.
I had to get very blunt with Cait (not in a bad way). But I told her that she is getting older and has to be more responsible. We cannot do everything for her. I asked her if she wanted to have the aide (knowing she didn't like it) and if she wanted to be able to babysit, etc. Then she had to show us through responsibility that she was able to have those things and this is what being responsible is.....
You have to let him fail a bit at this point. You have to follow through with the consequences. You have to teach him that you will support him when he needs it but he has to do his part as well.
Another big thing at this point is teaching him to be a self-advocate. To start to take ownership of his needs and successes. You may want to set up some incentives for him as well. For instance, things that will he will be able to do when he shows more responsibility.
Renee
Thank you for saying this. At least I know iam somewhat doing the right thing.I understand Josh has major problems in many areas. And we have been working on them, and he has had help. But I do not want it to be an excuse for him to use for the rest of his life either. I know this is a life long thing but some where along the line Josh will have to take some sort of responsiblity for himself.
He has lost all of his electronics. He will not be getting his DS this semester. And money he has to spend for it will be put into the bank and the issue will be revisited next semester if he gets his grades up. And we will be asking the teacher everyday if he turned in his work. This a learning process for all of us. Him and us and one day we will get this right.And Josh has proven he can do well. He did great in Hebrew SChool so far this year. And I think he has good teachers which help. But I think DH will hold off his Bar Miztvah till next March instead of Jan when his 13th birthday will be; because January is just a stresssful month in regular school to being with all of the standarized tests and just being after the holidays etc.
He has also moved up in the ranks of scouting very quickly. He has been very attentive and well insistant over his rank stuff. He is up to Tenderfoot and getting very close to 2nd class. Just has to start really pushing the merit badge stuff after this to help himself get the other ranks.
But now another issue has seemed to have arisen. Josh is plucking his hair. I just noticed today as I was talking to him about his grades. I was looking at his hair line and noticed it was off. Took a closer look to find he had plucked himself a bald spot. I have seen him pluck at his hair but I never saw him do a bald spot like this. Josh doesn't talk about his problems never has and probably never will. But it is one more reason why I am not always sure with him. I understand this may be related to stress. Well it is stress. It is a for of Stimming i guess. But I guess i will talk to his Developmental ped next week when I see her, because this is new. I don't know if he needs a med adjust ment or the need to add something new. i know Josh will pick at his fingernails and cuticles a little but so do many NTs and I am sure there are NTs who pluck at their hair but The last time I truly saw this was on a little old lady at a psych hospital where i worked and she had totally balded herself. So this makes me more nervous.
I guess the choice is do I let him fail and not stress him, but then face the possiblity of 6th grade again. Or well continue to fight for him,with him etc to hopefully gain a somewhat independent person when he is all grown up.
Rina
Reading the other posts in this thread I have to agree this is a tough situation.
When they are young and first diagnosed it is hard to tell what behavior is thier age and what is autism sometimes. I think this is no different. Some is the disability and some is their age and development.
However, I think we can address this issue in 2 ways. First, by definitely making teaching self advocacy and self-knowledge a priority so that they begin to explain where thier difficulties are and what they need help with. HOWEVER, we do have to be careful not to turn them into little lazy bums who constantly use thier disability as an excuse. I think we do this by emphasizing the positives and thier progress. Making goals for them to reach, that sort of thing.
The second way we address this is that when we are sure that we have implemented the modifications they need to be successful, then we let them be responsible for thier own behavior and teach that responsibility.
There could be 2 things going on with his current behavior 1) the modifications are not the right ones for him and 2) he has learned helplessness and is being a kid who doesn't want to do the work. It is hard to distinguish what it is. We have this problem constantly with Cait as well and it is a tough one to tease out.
However, we cannot "do" for them. Whether it is wrong modifications or no motivation we have to let them fail. If we do the work for them then it is not helping them at all. They come to an age where they do have to sink or swim at least a bit. We can give the floaties but we can't carry them forever. Not if we want them to be independent adults.
Renee
Rina,
I don't have any advice about the school stuff (I'm not there yet), but I do want to make sure you mention the hair pulling to the doctor.
Chiming in on the Trichotillomania-
My 9 year old son (aspie) went through an ugly round of this at the end of the last school year. We had no idea he was doing it until we noticed the bald spots on his head. Turns out he was "reacting" to the Adderall Rx. For whatever reason, it gave him the sensation of wanting to feel pain. He'd also been biting his nails to the point of bleeding, and sucking on his arm until it bruised. The hair pulling was the culmination (sp?) of his pain seeking sensory needs. Once we removed the Adderall, it was back to "normal" almost immediately.
This is probably irrelevant to what's going on with your son, but I thought I should mention it...as I know there are other parents out there who may have children on Adderall or similar meds. Just something to be aware of.
Amy
Rina,
It sounds to me like Kyle is very similar to Josh. Kyle has had goals in his IEP for work completion, turning in completed work, brining home homework, ect all with the ultimate goal and focus on learning independence. He has to be taught step by step with really clear simple instuctions on what he is responsible for. Make sure the teachers are using really clear language and visual supports and have a plan.
Does Josh have any motor planning or motor skills problems? Kyle does and they have a big impact everything in his day. Kyle would totally shove papers in his desk, locker, or back pack rather than put them away. Not because he is being defiant or forgetting but as hard as it may be to understand the seemingly simple act of putting the papers in a binder is HARD for him. Its so easy to forget this fact because most of us take motor planning for granted. For example the other day at an appointment Kyle decided to hand his coat up on a hanger on a coat rack. This was completely his idea. I was sitting across the room just observing him without him knowing I was watching. I was just so struck by how he struggled and took so long with such a seeming simple task. In 4th & 5th grade the OT worked with Kyle on the skill of stacking papers and putting them in a folder. Maybe Josh needs to be taught this skill too.
If I were you I'd watch Josh closely and see how he does with the consequences. I believe consequences are ok for out kids just like NT kids but we have to be mindful. If he is able to pull himself up and do what he needs to do then great. But watch closely because he may be able to pull himself up but you may see a big increase in his stress level. For Kyle if we or the school are pushing too hard we'll start to see much more stimming, head banging, or hitting himself. I want to push Kyle to grow but not to that point.
Hang in there,
Samantha
I agree Samantha about watching the consequences and see if they work. We are doing that and they are not. It has become obvious that the supports they are using for Cait are not what she needs and I just emailed the teacher YET AGAIN about this.
Cait wants OUT of her 1 "special" class and would rather at this point be in PE. She is very frustrated with the whole situation and I am wondering if she wouldn't do better in a resource program.
Mike is starting this as well in some ways it appears. They started giving him study hall. I told his teacher I would let them give him study hall if he didn't complete his homework for a short time and see if it worked to change it. If not, forget it.
I still hold that they need to learn responsibility but with the proper supports.
They also need to learn about themselves and how to provide themselves with the supports they need. It is just a really long road to get there
Renee
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