How do you ??????

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Registered: 03-27-2003
How do you ??????
6
Thu, 06-26-2003 - 5:54pm
discipline a child who has a language disorder and can not process info very well? Would you do the same things as if he was an infant? Lots of explanation? And what happens after the explanation when he jumps up and does the same thing again? Would any punishment work for a kid like this? If punishment or reasoning does not work---what then? How does one "get through" to a kid who CAN'T "get it"? Or is it a lost cause? Will this kid need 100% prevention of every action forever? Eyes on him--100% of the time? (which anyone with more than 1-2 kids knows that's impossible)



My 3.5yo did not get diagnosed with ASD--even though his language skills are that of a kid with ASD. His diagnosis is: Mixed developmental disorder. We will now be ruling-out ADHD, OCD, ODD, and anxiety disorder.

We will be starting language therapy--but we really need ideas on discipline--since nothing has ever worked!!

Holly

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 06-26-2003 - 11:22pm
Hmmm. Gotta tell you, those diagnosis - mixed developmental disorder (what on earth is that? mixed? that is the first I heard that one. I am assuming they mean his development is varied and not consistently delayed - very ASDish), ruling out ADHD, OCD, anxiety, etc at the age of 3.5 sounds an awful lot like ASD. Who "didn't" diagnose him by the way? Are they experienced in the milder end of the spectrum? Kids this age can be hard to diagnose, particularly those on the "milder" or not classic end of the spectrum.

Anyway, as far as how to discipline. Very concrete, very visual. No, I still don't explain things to them, expecially when they are upset because they just don't process it. Now that my ASD kids are older I can explain somewhat more but not during a meltdown. "You can't do that becuase it is dangerous". "Saying that hurts ____ feelings and that is not ok".

At 3 I use lots of visuals and simple verbal statements. For example I had pictures up with the main rules and token board. My kids still have a written list of the rules. They do it in schools for regular kids and we are all used to having rules posted at pools, etc. I figure it is about the same and our kids tend to process more visually than verbally. For verbals, short and to the point "no hitting" or "hands to self", etc.

Lastly, let me say I feel for you. My 3.5 y.o. is quite like that and needs much more supervision than the regular kid. I have a enormous number of horror stories. However, my bigger ones have gotten better with age. I don't need eye's on them %100 percent like he does now, but i do need to be more vigilant than with typical kids. I find setting myself up for success is teh best way to go. what in particular are the most problematic behaviors. Is there any way you can make that not available. For instance, I have locks high on the inside of all the doors so he can't get out. Our food is totally locked up or out of reach cause our little 3.5 y.o. is quite the food stealer. There are many more.

Good luck.

Renee

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Registered: 03-27-2003
Fri, 06-27-2003 - 11:09am
"Hmmm. Gotta tell you, those diagnosis - mixed developmental disorder (what on earth is that? mixed? that is the first I heard that one. I am assuming they mean his development is varied and not consistently delayed - very ASDish), ruling out ADHD, OCD, anxiety, etc at the age of 3.5 sounds an awful lot like ASD. Who "didn't" diagnose him by the way? Are they experienced in the milder end of the spectrum? Kids this age can be hard to diagnose, particularly those on the "milder" or not classic end of the spectrum."

He was diagnosed at the autism clinic from our Children's hospital in Seattle. He got that diagnosis because he has symptoms of every disorder and they didn't think he had enough ASD symptoms to be diagnosed. Their reasons for not an ASD diagnosis: essentially normal language development, good use of eye contact, good use of gestures, directs facial expressions to others, shows things to others,initiates and responds well to joint attention. I asked about Aspergers and they said he's too young. They want him ruled-out for the other disorders and then if he still has problems in a year or so, or they get more severe--we go back and get re-eval'd. He was seen by a speech path, neuro Dr. and a psychiatrist. They think it's ADHD---but that doesn't explain his weird stuff he does. They want him on a med trial to see what happens.

The mixed developmental disorder is the same as "Shadow syndrome" kids.---I assume. I asked about PDD-NOS and the team discussed this for a while and decided not to give him this. They said that some Drs would----it just depends on who is eval'ing him. They really felt he wasn't though.

Holly

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 06-27-2003 - 1:03pm
Holly, the 'mixed w/ ASDish traits" dx is more commonly being called ASD-FSP (Autism Spectrum Disorder-Further Specification Pending) My 3.5yo dd has this. And you're right, AS really can't be given to a child under 5yo since one of the dx criteria is "No clinically significant speech delays". Since we are not considered to be 'fluent' in our parent languages until 5yo there is still time to see if a problem is going to arise or go away. But remember there, also, that the key words are 'clinically significant'. It's possible for an Aspie to have speech delays as long they can be overcome easily with Early Intervention or only last for a short time. One must also remember that speech fluency and prgmatics problems can also be exceptable if they are within a certain tolerance. My DH (AS) has high end PSD and SM, but he is still an Aspie. My 12yo, on the other hand, didn't use simple two word sentances until she was about 4yo and still has signifiacnt PSD, so she was given the dx of PDD. And when it comes to children under 5 it is very hard to tell what is actually causing the problem. Specific traits can be dx'd, which is good since that allows you to get him servies in those areas, but a concrete dx of one of the 'general disorders' shouldn't be given until the child is slightly older and core development has been tracked. There are exceptions to that too, of course. Classic Autitism and Profound Turette's can be dx'd very early. And then there are the disorders that can be dx'd through genetic testing, such as Fragile-X. Oh, JFYI, ADHD should soon become a medically testable dx., but not for another few years. So far the 'F7 test' has shown great promise in identifying ADHD but it has to be subjected to further trails before it can become availble to the public. Personally, I think it works just fine. My family was part of a trail this last year. The 4 people in my family who have ADHD tested possitive, while the rest, who don't have ADHD, tested negative.

As for discipline, Renee is right, concrete/visual direction is the way to go. And in some cases, no words are even need, only action. For instance, my now 8yo (AS-low functioning) was horrid about dragging things out of the drwaers and cabinets when she was younger. I went blue in the face trying to constantly explain to her that this was not only unexcepable but dangerous. DH took an entirely different approach. Every time he saw her reach for a drawer he gently grabed her hand and and gave it a firm tap. He never said 'no' or anything else. He just just gave her the physical/visualy cues. She picked up on that very easily.

Also, when using words, it's best to keep it simple. Don't overwhelm him with to long of an explanation. Recently we were having a problem with my 3yo (ASD-FSP) getting into the clorine for the swimming pool. (She just wanted to help Daddy) DH took a few minutes to do the 'hand tap' thing with her and just said "Poison. Poison bad. Poison kills." After he finished cleaning the pool they sat down and had a 'game' where they went over all the things in the back yard. The number one rule in our house is "If it's not your's, don't touch it." So DH would point to things and ask "Is it your's?" and she would reply 'yes' or 'no' then Dh would ask "Are you allow to tough it?" and she would answer 'yes' or 'no'. The idea here being that if you answer the first question with a 'yes' then you answer the second question with a 'yes', and the same pattern for 'no'.


We have very basic rules in our house. We try not to go overboard with the intracaite rules.

A) ****If it's not your's, don't touch it**** -This means EVERYTHING that isn't theirs, including each other. This eleminates rules like 'no hitting, biting, scratching, etc.' and 'no playing with the laundry, dish, or pool soap'. Etc

B) **If you got it out, put it back.** -This aslo pretains to everything. If a kid gets out toys, they must put them back before they can do anything else. And in the event that they decide to touch my walls by drawing on them in crayon, they get to meet Mr. 409 and clean it off. As well, this means they have to put their own clothes away when they come out of the dryer..they are the ones who got it out of the drawer in the first place.

C) **Always ask, no matter what.** If they want to play with something, use something, or go somewhere they MUST ask. If they fail to ask first then they are no longer allowed to do that thing.

D) **Lying will always make it worse** - If they do something they know they shouldn't have and they lie about it the punishment for the lie will always outweigh the punishment for 'crime'. For instance, my 3yo once stoled a cookie just before dinner. Not a huge crime, carries very little punishment (a time out and no dessert). But she lied about it when I asked her if she had done it (older sister had witnessed the theft). So dd3 was grounded for 24 hours with no TV, parktime, or phone calls to Nana. Dd8 once used my perfume without asking, again, not a huge deal, this gets a 5 day grounding and a fine of $2. But she lied to me when I asked her about it (infact she was very adament....even though she REEKED of Vanilla Fields) So she was grounded for two weeks, and her origninal 5 days for the perfume was commuted to cleaning all the bathrooms (community service).

Okay, there I went again with yet another chapter in the 'book I'm not writing'. Sorry. LOL

Candes




Edited 6/27/2003 1:05:45 PM ET by drendrewolf

Peace,
Candes  
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Registered: 06-27-2003
Fri, 06-27-2003 - 3:17pm
I agree with the other posts on using visuals. One of the first things they taught Jacob in his ABA program was "First... Then...." - written on a strip with cards in the blank spots. Here's a website with pictures you might be able to use to help:

http://www.usevisualstrategies.com/pix.htm

Jacob also responds very well to simple "Rules" when they are written out, as well as Social Stories for more complicated explanations of how to behave. If your son likes videos, try the ones by "Special Kids". They're kind of like Social Stories on screen. We have the one for "A Day At School" as well as "Let's go to..."

A parent of an older Asperger's boy recommended this game (available at Teacher Supply stores) called "Mind your Manners". You move forwards and backwards on the game board based on cards with "Good Manners" or "Bad Manners" written out with numeric + and - values, along with a picture if he's too young to read. Some of the cards were things that didn't really apply to him (he's 5 now) so we just removed those from the deck. Anyway, this was a fun way both to teach him turntaking and learn about manners at the same time!

Mary

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Registered: 03-27-2003
Sat, 06-28-2003 - 9:12pm
Candes and Mary--

Thank you so much for the info!! You're incredibly helpful!! I now can start SOMEWHERE!!!

Holly

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 07-01-2003 - 1:05am
Ok, That actually makes a lot of sense now. For some reason I was picturing language delays and such with the "mixed developmental delay" label.

He actually sounds a bit like my 3.5 y.o. that we are trying to figure out. He is actually sleeping with an EEG monitor strapped to his head right now.

We know he is SID. We have had a langauge eval and although he would make errors he would always get enough right to keep going. He was answering questions 2 years above his age. I don't have the results yet. He does have some difficulty with articulation. He has behavioral problems as well and little oddities. Wish I could figure it out, but I think it will be years before I do.

Renee

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