"Mom, I lied"

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Registered: 06-25-2003
"Mom, I lied"
9
Fri, 07-29-2005 - 2:57pm

Peter had blood in his urine recently, so off to the Dr. we went, at high speed. It was a new ped. who does not know Peter too well. Appaently there were two possible causes for this, injury or an infection. The Dr was trying to find out if Peter and sustained any injuries; asking if anyone had hit or hurt him him? So a story emerges pertaining to an incident at camp, which involved two other boys.

So are packed off to a specialist. Do not pass "Go". Do not collect $200.

On the way, I am calling the camp counceller, trying to get more information (just information) on what happened. Other parents are called (by the camp, not me) and it blows into a Bit of An Incident.

We piece together some of what happened, and later, as I am explaining this to the specialist, Peter chimes in. "Matthew didn't hit me. I lied".

Quoi? I thought Aspies don't lie?

So Now I am trying to work out if Peter mangled facts to please the eager young doctor, or if he got the wrong end of the stick, or if he outright lied?

I know Peter's defination of "lie" is more intense than most. You weren't incorrect, didn't make a mistake, misinterpret, misjudge or miscalculate anything. You lied. So I guess I also want to know if any of you have any ideas as to how I can indroduce some grey into his very black-and-white perception of lies and lying.

Oh and BTW: After all that, it turned out to be a Urinary Tract Infection, not an injury at all. (sheesh. Matthew's mother cancelled his RSVP to Peter's birthday party...)

(sigh)

-Paula

-Paula

visit my blog at www.onesickmother.com
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-24-2004
Fri, 07-29-2005 - 6:47pm

Paula,

Nathan has started doing this. I didn't think that he understood how to lie, but he does lie to me. He tends to lie about things that he feels he's going to get into trouble for(at least, he thinks he's going to get into trouble when he really isn't). It's always something pretty trivial....so I don't know why he actually thinks he's going to be in trouble.

At first he was confused about the difference between "lying" and "teasing". So I explained to him that teasing is funny and that lying is not. So he does jump in real quick to let me know that he's just teasing. I'm able to tell now when he lies though. He tends to repeat the lie over and over again, so it kinda gives it away!! LOL

And when he does lie or do something he's not supposed too.....he showers me with "I LOVE YOU, I LOVE YOU!!" and "I'M SORRY, I'M SORRY!" So I also have to remind him that I love him, but that I don't like what he did or what he said. He thinks it's all the same. If mommy is upset...she doesn't love me. I can't seem to get this thru to him. It's on going!!!

Michelle

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Registered: 02-24-2005
Fri, 07-29-2005 - 7:37pm
I remember the first time Chase lied I was so excited. Everyone thought I was crazy but it made me feel like he was picking up on what someone might be thinking(theory of mind). He has only done it on a couple of occasions and I very lightly admonish him otherwise he is crushed and feels horrible. One time he actally set up the cards in a game of Sorry we were playing but he kept pushing me to go first and looked like the cat who ate the canary with this big smile on his face just anticipating me picking up a bad card. He's so funny.
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-03-2004
Fri, 07-29-2005 - 8:33pm

I also got very excited the first couple of times I caught Malcolm lying. It was to not get in trouble for somthing he'd done wrong, also a few times to try and get more "screen" time when really he'd already used his time up. Outwardly, I was reprimanding him, but inwardly I was dancing "he lied! he lied! Hooray!" He is becoming more aware that I may not know what he was doing and thinking when I wasn't in the room or was out of the apartment!

yours,

Sara
ilovemalcolm

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 07-30-2005 - 2:30am

Mike and Cait both will lie, they are just terribly bad at it. Mike lies rarely and even then I am not sure if it is a total lie or misunderstanding often. There have been a few but it usually involves telling me he is done with a chore or similar when he isn't. I could be standing right there looking at the unfinished work and he will tell me it is done, but half the time he doesn't process the question and just gives me the answer I want to hear to get me out of the way, lol.

We had quite a problem with Cait and lying this past year. She is now specifically working on being truthful. She was soo bad at it it would make everyone crazy. She will stick to a lie despite being caught red handed until she turns blue in the face. To the point of meltdown. Finally she is getting better. My favorite was the day she got a pink slip at school for telling the teacher she didn't have gum when the teacher could see her chewing it. Smacking those lips, chewing away insisting 'I DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING IN MY MOUTH!"

Well good luck with this new phase. One thing I have learned is that aspie's may not lie much, they may be bad at lying, but they sure can stick to it forever. They have some high stubborness rating them aspies!

Renee

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iVillage Member
Registered: 12-24-2004
Sat, 07-30-2005 - 9:22am

It looks like the others who posted have kids with a better developed sense of what lying is than Cassian does. Cassian seems to have difficulty distinguishing for other people where fantasy ends and reality begins, so sometimes what he is talking about can be misunderstood as the "truth." Actually, if you know his interests and scripts, it is pretty easy to decifer if he is in fantasy mode. You can even ask if what he is telling you is "true" during these times, he he will say, "Yes." I think he has a poor grasp of what "true" is. I think if it happens on a video or in a book or if he played it out, he counts this as "true." I know some other ASD kids that do this, who are pretty high functioning but who have an active imagination. In some cases, it may also be their way of keeping the conversation going because they are enjoying interacting and realizing the control they have in such situations. The main thing to understand, I think, is that these kids are very bad at thinking about the consequences of not telling the truth. I think that is very much a part of what happened in your case. You are probably already doing this, but I would really work on drawing clear lines between the act of lying and what happened as a result. Use social stories, conversation, books, or whatever you think will get the message across to your child. Repetition of the same concept will also probably be important to help him see the same thing happening in other situations.

Suzi

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Registered: 06-25-2003
Sat, 07-30-2005 - 10:36am

Thanks all of you for he responses. I think with Peter, There is a combination of factors: Not understanding the concept fully, wanting to please (the Dr clearly thought there shuold have been an injury) and with him, there is also the fact that reality is even more subjective than with most people.

Am looking for a nice "boy who cried Wolf" book....

-Paula

-Paula

visit my blog at www.onesickmother.com
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 07-30-2005 - 11:05am

Thats a situation for us sometimes too. ANd Suzi, that reality vs fantasy happens a lot here too. Mike I am not sure how much he is willfully lying when he does. It has been rare and only the one type of situation.

But I am wondering, this is a tough spot for me. Have any of you ever experienced where the child appeared to be lying but it was just poor communication or concrete thinking or similar? I have no problem determining when I catch Emily in a lie that she meant to do it, lol. But with the others it isn't as easy. It is getting more so with Cait, but still sometimes it can totally be miscommunication.

The few times I caught Mike in a lie was just the one situation where he didn't not finish his checklist when he said he did. I still don't honestly know if he thought he was done and flaked about finishing, or more common, if I asked the question in correctly and he answered based on his understanding of my question.

Kids like emily have tells when they are lying. Not able to make eye contact, act more nervous. Cait and Mike have no tells what so ever. Like you said I think suzi, they don't know what their lies do to others I think. Cait is big on this and it is part of why she will stick with a lie until she is blue despite being caught. "Cait, did you take the last muffin out of the container" "No!" (and it will be in her hand or she is chewing on it) In a situation like that either she is lying and will stick to it until death or perhaps the muffin wasn't in the container and she is stuck on that. If I say, where did you get it she will tell me.

Very frustrating.

Renee

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iVillage Member
Registered: 10-24-2003
Sat, 07-30-2005 - 11:58am

I think alot of Jake's "lies" involve misunderstanding the question or taking a question too literally.

Pat

Happiness is a conscious choice, not an automatic response. --

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 07-31-2005 - 9:02am

Liam has just recently attempted lying and thank goodness he's lousey at it:) Mainly it's when he's been asked for the hundreth time to do somehing and he's just forgotten, or been distrcated. Occasionally he may respond with a "nothing" when asked what his involvment is in an incident with another kid, but at the same time he's burying his head in a sofa to avoid the conflict (whether there's need for one or not). He often responds with a "I'm just jokin" in a thick Dublin accent (which cracks me up as he hasn't been back home since last August). In general I am kind of happy he can't really lie. He definitely wears his heart on his sleeve, although I am aware this will make late childhood and adolescence near torture.

Dee