More Aspie (manic?) stuff here, too

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Registered: 03-31-2003
More Aspie (manic?) stuff here, too
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Fri, 12-16-2005 - 1:21pm

My kids are both driving me crazy. David, who is dx with AS and mood disorder NOS, woke up this morning and instantly started shouting out bizarre things. I don't always know exactly where the mood disorder ends and the AS begins, but this was the kind of stuff his dev ped would probably call "manic". His voice gets really high pitched, and he shouts out rude things and laughs like, well, a maniac. He cupped his hands against the wall, and repeatedly shouted, "Shut up, bloody he**!!" into the wall. We have a little old lady who lives right next door (townhouses), and for all I know her bed is right on the other side of the wall. It was 7:15 am, and I couldn't get him to stop.

Eventually he did stop, though, and we got him to school without incident. Today they have a walking field trip to the fire station, and I really hope he can handle it. Sometimes this kind of weird stuff happens because he has gained a bit of weight and the dosage of mood stabilizer is no longer as effective as it was. Other times it just happes for no apparent reason. I've found that his most bizarre behavior tends to occur the instant he wakes up or the instant he's about to drift off to sleep. (We have him on melatonin supplements now, which helps with the night stuff.) All his life, as soon as he's all relaxed and about to drift off to sleep, he'll suddenly wake up and start shouting silly things. Something definitely is out of whack in that part of his brain, and I wish I knew what it was. Hopefully we won't see too much of that stuff over the holidays.

As far as my other kid driving me crazy, well, Nathan, 4, is having big challenges in expressing himself appropriately. But I'll have to save that for another post.
Right now he is heaving big sighs and saying, "Mom, I'm getting bored of waiting for you to play." Guess it's time to go. ;)

Evelyn

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Registered: 02-24-2004
Fri, 12-16-2005 - 3:12pm

Ooohh, Eveyln, you've got your hands full!!!

I'm not dealing with any mood disorder with Nathan (knock on wood!). But the one thing Nathan does once he's in bed.....is laugh!! He doesn't do this all the time, but it is cute.

Anyway, are you looking into checking up on his med and dosage? It sounds like there could be some correlation between his behavior and the weight gain that you mentioned. Or do you think it's from the holidays?? I've been keeping Nathan on the melatonin too. Christmas being just around the corner, is just too stimulating for Nathan to fall asleep!

michelle

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 12-16-2005 - 6:17pm

Very Very Manic and hyper here too. When he wasn't angry this week he was hyper. BUT we are off school as of 45 minutes ago. SOOOOO here's hoping that it gets better.

Renee

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Avatar for kathy_in_ga
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 12-18-2005 - 5:59pm

Manic here too. I can tell when Joiner is manic, his pupils are large, he sleeps less, carves

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Registered: 12-24-2004
Mon, 12-19-2005 - 2:22pm

Hi Evelyn,

Since you have a kid with a mood disorder and AS, are you clear on how to distinguish ADHD (hyperactivated) behavior vs. hypomania in a such a child. As I understand it, these two issues are quite separate neurologically because they require different meds to correct, but I am having a hard time seeing which is going on with Cassian. He seemed to have a sort of hypomanic period for about 5 weeks in November-early December. Now, he is calmer and more regulated. The changed happened overnight. He went through this period where he had trouble dampening tantrums and had a lot more emotional upheavals. He also had toileting accidents during this time and awoke during the night several times a week, very enthused about his latest obsession (different each time). He was also much more active, noisier, and more inattentive during this period. There was no sexualizing or danger seeking behavior but a lot of tantruming over not being allowed to march to his own drummer.

Of course we had changes in our household here that could have stressed Cassian, but this happened 3 months after Tristan was born, which seems like a big delay to me. With Christmas coming, I also would have expected more "mania", but last week, he switched to this calmer happier state. This all makes me suspect BPD. What do you think?

Suzi

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Registered: 03-31-2003
Mon, 12-19-2005 - 5:23pm

Suzi,

The ADHD/Bipolar question can be a tough one, because symptoms overlap, and each child is so unique. I can read all the descriptions of ADHD, childhood onset bipolar, and Asperger's I can find, and I never come across anything that is exactly David.

We never considered that David might have ADHD, because as a baby, he'd sit and look at books or play with one thing for remarkably long periods. As it turned out, the dev. ped. told us that she wouldn't rule it out exactly, but that would be in addition to the mood disorder. For one, he appeared to be suffering from some kinds of psychosis, although I didn't recognize it as such at first. It's my understanding that psychosis is not a symptom of ADHD. He panicked at noises no one else heard, and once he saw a semi-transparent space alien sitting on the shelf. He wasn't afraid of it, but he was confused, and asked me if I saw it. This wasn't like any normal pretending he'd done. It's been a while since I thought of this, since it isn't a problem these days, but he wasn't merely hyperactive. He was so angry, and panicky, AND hyper, and bizarrely goofy, and hypersexual, all rolled into one. He also said a lot of stuff about wanted the whole universe to disappear, including himself, or how good it would be to just be dead. And you never knew, from one moment to the next, what would set him off. You could saying, "mmm-hmmm" to indicate that you were listening to his sentence, and next thing you know he's throwing a plate across the room because you "interrupted". Or you could keep quiet (out of fear) and he'd freak out because you "aren't listening". Back in those days, living with David was extremely difficult, and we walked on eggshells all the time.

I never saw any "cycling" of moods. There was nothing for me to "chart".

I'll never know what's going on in his brain. It's been a year and a half since we've seen the kind of stuff I described, thanks to medication, but what we experienced with him never fit into the descriptions I've read about "mania" or "depression." Or "ADHD" for that matter. But it responds to Trileptal and Abilify, and he's a happy, thriving little boy again. He's also got a dx of Asperger's, which the dev. ped. was quite confident about...although when people on this board describe their children, there are so many times when I think, "wow, David's not like that at all."

Sure is confusing. I guess the important thing is that they get whatever support they need to be their very best.

About Cassian: When my friend had a new baby, her 3.5 year old son had pretty extreme behavior issues for the first few months. He was hyper and out-of-control. I know him well, and although he's not dx with an ASD, it runs in their family, and he's got a lot of AS-like traits. But for those first few months, he was a real handful. Everything kind of worked out, though. So, maybe this is what is going on with Cassian.

Take care,
Evelyn